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From: Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>
To: Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>
Cc: Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>, Jerome Glisse <jglisse@redhat.com>,
	John Hubbard <jhubbard@nvidia.com>,
	Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>,
	Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>,
	John Hubbard <john.hubbard@gmail.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Linux MM <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	tom@talpey.com, Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	benve@cisco.com, Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	Christopher Lameter <cl@linux.com>,
	"Dalessandro, Dennis" <dennis.dalessandro@intel.com>,
	Doug Ledford <dledford@redhat.com>,
	Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@ziepe.ca>, Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org>,
	mike.marciniszyn@intel.com, rcampbell@nvidia.com,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-fsdevel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/2] mm: introduce put_user_page*(), placeholder versions
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:24:49 +0100
Message-ID: <20181219132449.GD18345@quack2.suse.cz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20181218234254.GC31274@dastard>

On Wed 19-12-18 10:42:54, Dave Chinner wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 11:33:06AM +0100, Jan Kara wrote:
> > On Mon 17-12-18 08:58:19, Dave Chinner wrote:
> > > On Fri, Dec 14, 2018 at 04:43:21PM +0100, Jan Kara wrote:
> > > > Yes, for filesystem it is too late. But the plan we figured back in October
> > > > was to do the bouncing in the block layer. I.e., mark the bio (or just the
> > > > particular page) as needing bouncing and then use the existing page
> > > > bouncing mechanism in the block layer to do the bouncing for us. Ext3 (when
> > > > it was still a separate fs driver) has been using a mechanism like this to
> > > > make DIF/DIX work with its metadata.
> > > 
> > > Sure, that's a possibility, but that doesn't close off any race
> > > conditions because there can be DMA into the page in progress while
> > > the page is being bounced, right? AFAICT this ext3+DIF/DIX case is
> > > different in that there is no 3rd-party access to the page while it
> > > is under IO (ext3 arbitrates all access to it's metadata), and so
> > > nothing can actually race for modification of the page between
> > > submission and bouncing at the block layer.
> > >
> > > In this case, the moment the page is unlocked, anyone else can map
> > > it and start (R)DMA on it, and that can happen before the bio is
> > > bounced by the block layer. So AFAICT, block layer bouncing doesn't
> > > solve the problem of racing writeback and DMA direct to the page we
> > > are doing IO on. Yes, it reduces the race window substantially, but
> > > it doesn't get rid of it.
> > 
> > The scenario you describe here cannot happen exactly because of the
> > wait_for_stable_page() in ->page_mkwrite() you mention below.
> 
> In general, no, because stable pages are controlled by block
> devices.
> 
> void wait_for_stable_page(struct page *page)
> {
>         if (bdi_cap_stable_pages_required(inode_to_bdi(page->mapping->host)))
>                 wait_on_page_writeback(page);
> }
> 
> 
> I have previously advocated for the filesystem to be in control of
> stable pages but, well, too many people shouted "but performance!"
> and so we still have all these holes I wanted to close in our
> code...
> 
> > If someone
> > will try to GUP a page that is under writeback (has already PageWriteback
> > set), GUP will have to do a write fault because the page is writeprotected
> > in page tables and go into ->page_mkwrite() which will wait.
> 
> Correct, but that doesn't close the problem down because stable
> pages are something we cannot rely on right now. We need to fix
> wait_for_stable_page() to always block on page writeback before
> this specific race condition goes away.

Right, all I said was assuming that someone actually cares about stable
pages so bdi_cap_stable_pages_required() is set. I agree with filesystem
having ability to control whether stable pages are required or not. But
when stable pages get enforced seems like a separate problem to me.

> > The problem rather is with someone mapping the page *before* writeback
> > starts, giving the page to HW. Then clear_page_dirty_for_io() writeprotects
> > the page in PTEs but the HW gives a damn about that. Then, after we add the
> > page to the bio but before the page gets bounced by the block layer, the HW
> > can still modify it.
> 
> Sure, that's yet another aspect of the same problem - not getting a
> write fault when the page is being written to. If we got a write
> fault, then the wait_for_stable_page() call in ->page_mkwrite would
> then solve the problem.
> 
> Essentially, what we are talking about is how to handle broken
> hardware. I say we should just brun it with napalm and thermite
> (i.e. taint the kernel with "unsupportable hardware") and force
> wait_for_stable_page() to trigger when there are GUP mappings if
> the underlying storage doesn't already require it.

As I wrote in other email, this is also about direct IO using file mapping
as a data buffer. So burn with napalm can hardly be a complete solution...
I agree that for the hardware that cannot support revoking of access /
fault on access and uses long-term page pins, we may just have to put up
with weird behavior in some corner cases.

> > > If it's permanently dirty, how do we trigger new COW operations
> > > after writeback has "cleaned" the page? i.e. we still need a
> > > ->page_mkwrite call to run before we allow the next write to the
> > > page to be done, regardless of whether the page is "permanently
> > > dirty" or not....
> > 
> > Interaction with COW is certainly an interesting problem. When the page
> > gets pinned, GUP will make sure the page is writeably mapped and trigger a
> > write fault if not. So at the moment the page is pinned, we are sure the
> > page is COWed. Now the question is what should happen when the file A
> > containing this pinned page gets reflinked to file B while the page is still
> > pinned.
> > 
> > Options I can see are:
> > 
> > 1) Fail the reflink.
> >   - difficult for sysadmin to discover the source of failure
> >
> > 2) Block reflink until the pin of the page is released.
> >   - can last for a long time, again difficult to discover
> > 
> > 3) Don't do anything special.
> >   - can corrupt data as read accesses through file B won't see
> >     modifications done to the page (and thus eventually the corresponding disk
> >     block) by the HW.
> > 
> > 4) Immediately COW the block during reflink when the corresponding page
> >    cache page is pinned.
> >   - seems as the best solution at this point, although sadly also requires
> >     the most per-filesystem work
> 
> None of the above are acceptable solutions - they all have nasty
> corner cases which are going to be difficult to get right, test,
> etc. IMO, the robust, reliable, testable solution is this:
> 
> 5) The reflink breaks the file lease, the userspace app releases the
> pinned pages on the file and drops the lease. The reflink proceeds,
> does it's work, and then the app gets a new lease on the file. When
> the app pins the pages again, it triggers new ->page_mkwrite calls
> to break any sharing that the reflink created. And if the app fails
> to drop the lease, then we can either fail with a lease related
> error or kill it....

This is certainly fine for the GUP users that are going to support leases.
But do you want GUP in direct IO to create a lease if the pages are from a
file mapping? I belive we need another option at least for GUP references
that are short-term in nature and sometimes also performance critical.

								Honza
-- 
Jan Kara <jack@suse.com>
SUSE Labs, CR

  parent reply index

Thread overview: 179+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-12-04  0:17 [PATCH 0/2] put_user_page*(): start converting the call sites john.hubbard
2018-12-04  0:17 ` [PATCH 1/2] mm: introduce put_user_page*(), placeholder versions john.hubbard
2018-12-04  7:53   ` Mike Rapoport
2018-12-05  1:40     ` John Hubbard
2018-12-04 20:28   ` Dan Williams
2018-12-04 21:56     ` John Hubbard
2018-12-04 23:03       ` Dan Williams
2018-12-05  0:36         ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05  0:40           ` Dan Williams
2018-12-05  0:59             ` John Hubbard
2018-12-05  0:58         ` John Hubbard
2018-12-05  1:00           ` Dan Williams
2018-12-05  1:15           ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-12-05  1:44             ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-05  1:57               ` John Hubbard
2018-12-07  2:45                 ` John Hubbard
2018-12-07 19:16                   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-07 19:26                     ` Dan Williams
2018-12-07 19:40                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-08  0:52                     ` John Hubbard
2018-12-08  2:24                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-10 10:28                         ` Jan Kara
2018-12-12 15:03                           ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-12 16:27                             ` Dan Williams
2018-12-12 17:02                               ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-12 17:49                                 ` Dan Williams
2018-12-12 19:07                                   ` John Hubbard
2018-12-12 21:30                               ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-12 21:40                                 ` Dan Williams
2018-12-12 21:53                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-12 22:11                                     ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-12-12 22:16                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-12 23:37                                     ` Jason Gunthorpe
2018-12-12 23:46                                       ` John Hubbard
2018-12-12 23:54                                       ` Dan Williams
2018-12-13  0:01                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-13  0:18                                         ` Dan Williams
2018-12-13  0:44                                           ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-13  3:26                                             ` Jason Gunthorpe
2018-12-13  3:20                                         ` Jason Gunthorpe
2018-12-13 12:43                                           ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-13 13:40                                             ` Tom Talpey
2018-12-13 14:18                                               ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-13 14:51                                                 ` Tom Talpey
2018-12-13 15:18                                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-13 18:12                                                     ` Tom Talpey
2018-12-13 19:18                                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-14 10:41                                             ` Jan Kara
2018-12-14 15:25                                               ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-12 21:56                                 ` John Hubbard
2018-12-12 22:04                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-12 22:11                                     ` John Hubbard
2018-12-12 22:14                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-12 22:17                                         ` John Hubbard
2018-12-12 21:46                             ` Dave Chinner
2018-12-12 21:59                               ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-13  0:51                                 ` Dave Chinner
2018-12-13  2:02                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-13 15:56                                     ` Christopher Lameter
2018-12-13 16:02                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-14  6:00                                     ` Dave Chinner
2018-12-14 15:13                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-14  3:52                                   ` John Hubbard
2018-12-14  5:21                                     ` Dan Williams
2018-12-14  6:11                                       ` John Hubbard
2018-12-14 15:20                                         ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-14 19:38                                         ` Dan Williams
2018-12-14 19:48                                           ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-12-14 19:53                                             ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-14 20:03                                               ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-12-14 20:17                                                 ` Dan Williams
2018-12-14 20:29                                                   ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-12-15  0:41                                                 ` John Hubbard
2018-12-17  8:56                                           ` Jan Kara
2018-12-17 18:28                                             ` Dan Williams
2018-12-14 15:43                               ` Jan Kara
2018-12-16 21:58                                 ` Dave Chinner
2018-12-17 18:11                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-17 18:34                                     ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-12-17 19:48                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-17 19:51                                         ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-12-17 19:54                                           ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-17 19:59                                             ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-12-17 20:55                                               ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-17 21:03                                                 ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-12-17 21:15                                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-18  1:09                                       ` Dave Chinner
2018-12-18  6:12                                       ` Darrick J. Wong
2018-12-18  9:30                                       ` Jan Kara
2018-12-18 23:29                                         ` John Hubbard
2018-12-19  2:07                                           ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-19 11:08                                             ` Jan Kara
2018-12-20 10:54                                               ` John Hubbard
2018-12-20 16:50                                                 ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-20 16:57                                                   ` Dan Williams
2018-12-20 16:49                                               ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-03  1:55                                               ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-03  3:27                                                 ` John Hubbard
2019-01-03 14:57                                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-03  9:26                                                 ` Jan Kara
2019-01-03 14:44                                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-11  2:59                                                     ` John Hubbard
2019-01-11 16:51                                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-12  1:04                                                         ` John Hubbard
2019-01-12  2:02                                                           ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-12  2:38                                                             ` John Hubbard
2019-01-12  2:46                                                               ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-12  3:06                                                                 ` John Hubbard
2019-01-12  3:25                                                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-12 20:46                                                                     ` John Hubbard
2019-01-14 14:54                                                                   ` Jan Kara
2019-01-14 17:21                                                                     ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-14 19:09                                                                       ` John Hubbard
2019-01-15  8:34                                                                         ` Jan Kara
2019-01-15 21:39                                                                           ` John Hubbard
2019-01-15  8:07                                                                       ` Jan Kara
2019-01-15 17:15                                                                         ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-15 21:56                                                                           ` John Hubbard
2019-01-15 22:12                                                                             ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-16  0:44                                                                               ` John Hubbard
2019-01-16  1:56                                                                                 ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-16  2:01                                                                                   ` Dan Williams
2019-01-16  2:23                                                                                     ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-16  4:34                                                                                       ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-16 14:50                                                                                         ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-16 22:51                                                                                           ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-16 11:38                                                                         ` Jan Kara
2019-01-16 13:08                                                                           ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-17  5:42                                                                             ` John Hubbard
2019-01-17 15:21                                                                               ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-18  0:16                                                                                 ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-18  1:59                                                                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-17  9:30                                                                             ` Jan Kara
2019-01-17 15:17                                                                               ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-22 15:24                                                                                 ` Jan Kara
2019-01-22 16:46                                                                                   ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-23 18:02                                                                                     ` Jan Kara
2019-01-23 19:04                                                                                       ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-29  0:22                                                                                         ` John Hubbard
2019-01-29  1:23                                                                                           ` Jerome Glisse
2019-01-29  6:41                                                                                             ` John Hubbard
2019-01-29 10:12                                                                                               ` Jan Kara
2019-01-30  2:21                                                                                                 ` John Hubbard
2019-01-17  5:25                                                                         ` John Hubbard
2019-01-17  9:04                                                                           ` Jan Kara
2019-01-12  3:14                                                               ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-18 10:33                                   ` Jan Kara
2018-12-18 23:42                                     ` Dave Chinner
2018-12-19  3:03                                       ` Jason Gunthorpe
2018-12-19  5:26                                         ` Dan Williams
2018-12-19 11:19                                           ` Jan Kara
2018-12-19 10:28                                         ` Dave Chinner
2018-12-19 11:35                                           ` Jan Kara
2018-12-19 16:56                                             ` Jason Gunthorpe
2018-12-19 22:33                                             ` Dave Chinner
2018-12-20  9:07                                               ` Jan Kara
2018-12-20 16:54                                               ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-19 13:24                                       ` Jan Kara [this message]
2018-12-08  5:18                       ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-12-12 19:13                         ` John Hubbard
2018-12-08  7:16                       ` Dan Williams
2018-12-08 16:33                         ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-08 16:48                           ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-12-08 17:47                             ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-08 18:26                               ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-12-08 18:45                                 ` Jerome Glisse
2018-12-08 18:09                             ` Dan Williams
2018-12-08 18:12                               ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-12-11  6:18                               ` Dave Chinner
2018-12-05  5:52             ` Dan Williams
2018-12-05 11:16       ` Jan Kara
2018-12-04  0:17 ` [PATCH 2/2] infiniband/mm: convert put_page() to put_user_page*() john.hubbard
2018-12-04 17:10 ` [PATCH 0/2] put_user_page*(): start converting the call sites David Laight
2018-12-05  1:05   ` John Hubbard
2018-12-05 14:08     ` David Laight
2018-12-28  8:37       ` Pavel Machek
2019-02-08  7:56 [PATCH 0/2] mm: put_user_page() call site conversion first john.hubbard
2019-02-08  7:56 ` [PATCH 1/2] mm: introduce put_user_page*(), placeholder versions john.hubbard
2019-02-08 10:32   ` Mike Rapoport
2019-02-08 20:44     ` John Hubbard

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