From: Christian Brauner <christian@brauner.io>
To: Daniel Colascione <dancol@google.com>
Cc: "Joel Fernandes" <joel@joelfernandes.org>,
"Suren Baghdasaryan" <surenb@google.com>,
"Steven Rostedt" <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
"Sultan Alsawaf" <sultan@kerneltoast.com>,
"Tim Murray" <timmurray@google.com>,
"Michal Hocko" <mhocko@kernel.org>,
"Greg Kroah-Hartman" <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
"Arve Hjønnevåg" <arve@android.com>,
"Todd Kjos" <tkjos@android.com>,
"Martijn Coenen" <maco@android.com>,
"Ingo Molnar" <mingo@redhat.com>,
"Peter Zijlstra" <peterz@infradead.org>,
LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
"open list:ANDROID DRIVERS" <devel@driverdev.osuosl.org>,
linux-mm <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
kernel-team <kernel-team@android.com>,
"Oleg Nesterov" <oleg@redhat.com>,
"Andy Lutomirski" <luto@amacapital.net>,
"Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@hallyn.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC] simple_lmk: Introduce Simple Low Memory Killer for Android
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 01:29:51 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20190318002949.mqknisgt7cmjmt7n@brauner.io> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAKOZuetZPhqQqSgZpyY0cLgy0jroLJRx-B93rkQzcOByL8ih_Q@mail.gmail.com>
On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 08:40:19AM -0700, Daniel Colascione wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 4:42 AM Christian Brauner <christian@brauner.io> wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 09:53:06PM -0400, Joel Fernandes wrote:
> > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 12:37:18PM -0700, Suren Baghdasaryan wrote:
> > > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 11:57 AM Christian Brauner <christian@brauner.io> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 11:00:10AM -0700, Daniel Colascione wrote:
> > > > > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 10:31 AM Suren Baghdasaryan <surenb@google.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 11:49 AM Joel Fernandes <joel@joelfernandes.org> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 07:24:28PM +0100, Christian Brauner wrote:
> > > > > > > > [..]
> > > > > > > > > > why do we want to add a new syscall (pidfd_wait) though? Why not just use
> > > > > > > > > > standard poll/epoll interface on the proc fd like Daniel was suggesting.
> > > > > > > > > > AFAIK, once the proc file is opened, the struct pid is essentially pinned
> > > > > > > > > > even though the proc number may be reused. Then the caller can just poll.
> > > > > > > > > > We can add a waitqueue to struct pid, and wake up any waiters on process
> > > > > > > > > > death (A quick look shows task_struct can be mapped to its struct pid) and
> > > > > > > > > > also possibly optimize it using Steve's TIF flag idea. No new syscall is
> > > > > > > > > > needed then, let me know if I missed something?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Huh, I thought that Daniel was against the poll/epoll solution?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hmm, going through earlier threads, I believe so now. Here was Daniel's
> > > > > > > > reasoning about avoiding a notification about process death through proc
> > > > > > > > directory fd: http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1811.0/00232.html
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > May be a dedicated syscall for this would be cleaner after all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ah, I wish I've seen that discussion before...
> > > > > > > syscall makes sense and it can be non-blocking and we can use
> > > > > > > select/poll/epoll if we use eventfd.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for taking a look.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would strongly advocate for
> > > > > > > non-blocking version or at least to have a non-blocking option.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Waiting for FD readiness is *already* blocking or non-blocking
> > > > > > according to the caller's desire --- users can pass options they want
> > > > > > to poll(2) or whatever. There's no need for any kind of special
> > > > > > configuration knob or non-blocking option. We already *have* a
> > > > > > non-blocking option that works universally for everything.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As I mentioned in the linked thread, waiting for process exit should
> > > > > > work just like waiting for bytes to appear on a pipe. Process exit
> > > > > > status is just another blob of bytes that a process might receive. A
> > > > > > process exit handle ought to be just another information source. The
> > > > > > reason the unix process API is so awful is that for whatever reason
> > > > > > the original designers treated processes as some kind of special kind
> > > > > > of resource instead of fitting them into the otherwise general-purpose
> > > > > > unix data-handling API. Let's not repeat that mistake.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Something like this:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > evfd = eventfd(0, EFD_NONBLOCK | EFD_CLOEXEC);
> > > > > > > // register eventfd to receive death notification
> > > > > > > pidfd_wait(pid_to_kill, evfd);
> > > > > > > // kill the process
> > > > > > > pidfd_send_signal(pid_to_kill, ...)
> > > > > > > // tend to other things
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now you've lost me. pidfd_wait should return a *new* FD, not wire up
> > > > > > an eventfd.
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ok, I probably misunderstood your post linked by Joel. I though your
> > > > original proposal was based on being able to poll a file under
> > > > /proc/pid and then you changed your mind to have a separate syscall
> > > > which I assumed would be a blocking one to wait for process exit.
> > > > Maybe you can describe the new interface you are thinking about in
> > > > terms of userspace usage like I did above? Several lines of code would
> > > > explain more than paragraphs of text.
> > >
> > > Hey, Thanks Suren for the eventfd idea. I agree with Daniel on this. The idea
> > > from Daniel here is to wait for process death and exit events by just
> > > referring to a stable fd, independent of whatever is going on in /proc.
> > >
> > > What is needed is something like this (in highly pseudo-code form):
> > >
> > > pidfd = opendir("/proc/<pid>",..);
> > > wait_fd = pidfd_wait(pidfd);
> > > read or poll wait_fd (non-blocking or blocking whichever)
> > >
> > > wait_fd will block until the task has either died or reaped. In both these
> > > cases, it can return a suitable string such as "dead" or "reaped" although an
> > > integer with some predefined meaning is also Ok.
>
> I want to return a siginfo_t: we already use this structure in other
> contexts to report exit status.
>
> > > What that guarantees is, even if the task's PID has been reused, or the task
> > > has already died or already died + reaped, all of these events cannot race
> > > with the code above and the information passed to the user is race-free and
> > > stable / guaranteed.
> > >
> > > An eventfd seems to not fit well, because AFAICS passing the raw PID to
> > > eventfd as in your example would still race since the PID could have been
> > > reused by another process by the time the eventfd is created.
> > >
> > > Also Andy's idea in [1] seems to use poll flags to communicate various tihngs
> > > which is still not as explicit about the PID's status so that's a poor API
> > > choice compared to the explicit syscall.
> > >
> > > I am planning to work on a prototype patch based on Daniel's idea and post something
> > > soon (chatted with Daniel about it and will reference him in the posting as
> > > well), during this posting I will also summarize all the previous discussions
> > > and come up with some tests as well. I hope to have something soon.
>
> Thanks.
>
> > Having pidfd_wait() return another fd will make the syscall harder to
> > swallow for a lot of people I reckon.
> > What exactly prevents us from making the pidfd itself readable/pollable
> > for the exit staus? They are "special" fds anyway. I would really like
> > to avoid polluting the api with multiple different types of fds if possible.
>
> If pidfds had been their own file type, I'd agree with you. But pidfds
> are directories, which means that we're beholden to make them behave
> like directories normally do. I'd rather introduce another FD than
> heavily overload the semantics of a directory FD in one particular
> context. In no other circumstances are directory FDs also weird
> IO-data sources. Our providing a facility to get a new FD to which we
> *can* give pipe-like behavior does no harm and *usage* cleaner and
> easier to reason about.
I have two things I'm currently working on:
- hijacking translate_pid()
- pidfd_clone() essentially
My first goal is to talk to Eric about taking the translate_pid()
syscall that has been sitting in his tree and expanding it.
translate_pid() currently allows you to either get an fd for the pid
namespace a pid resides in or the pid number of a given process in
another pid namespace relative to a passed in pid namespace fd. I would
like to make it possible for this syscall to also give us back pidfds.
One question I'm currently struggling with is exactly what you said
above: what type of file descriptor these are going to give back to us.
It seems that a regular file instead of directory would make the most
sense and would lead to a nicer API and I'm very much leaning towards
that.
Christian
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-03-18 0:30 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 113+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-03-10 20:34 [RFC] simple_lmk: Introduce Simple Low Memory Killer for Android Sultan Alsawaf
2019-03-10 21:03 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-03-10 21:26 ` Sultan Alsawaf
2019-03-11 16:32 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-03-11 16:37 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-03-11 17:43 ` Michal Hocko
2019-03-11 17:58 ` Sultan Alsawaf
2019-03-11 20:10 ` Suren Baghdasaryan
2019-03-11 20:46 ` Sultan Alsawaf
2019-03-11 21:11 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-03-11 21:46 ` Sultan Alsawaf
2019-03-11 22:15 ` Suren Baghdasaryan
2019-03-11 22:36 ` Sultan Alsawaf
2019-03-12 8:05 ` Michal Hocko
2019-03-12 14:36 ` Suren Baghdasaryan
2019-03-12 15:25 ` Matthew Wilcox
2019-03-12 15:33 ` Michal Hocko
2019-03-12 15:39 ` Michal Hocko
2019-03-12 16:37 ` Sultan Alsawaf
2019-03-12 16:48 ` Michal Hocko
2019-03-12 16:58 ` Michal Hocko
2019-03-12 17:15 ` Suren Baghdasaryan
2019-03-12 17:17 ` Tim Murray
2019-03-12 17:45 ` Sultan Alsawaf
2019-03-12 18:43 ` Tim Murray
2019-03-12 18:50 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-14 17:47 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-03-14 20:49 ` Sultan Alsawaf
2019-03-15 2:54 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-03-15 3:43 ` Sultan Alsawaf
2019-03-15 3:16 ` Steven Rostedt
2019-03-15 3:45 ` Sultan Alsawaf
2019-03-15 4:36 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-03-15 13:36 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-03-15 15:56 ` Suren Baghdasaryan
2019-03-15 16:12 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-03-15 16:43 ` Steven Rostedt
2019-03-15 17:17 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-03-15 18:03 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-15 18:13 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-03-15 18:24 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-15 18:49 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-03-16 17:31 ` Suren Baghdasaryan
2019-03-16 18:00 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-03-16 18:57 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-16 19:37 ` Suren Baghdasaryan
2019-03-17 1:53 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-03-17 11:42 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-17 15:40 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-03-18 0:29 ` Christian Brauner [this message]
2019-03-18 23:50 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-03-19 22:14 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-19 22:26 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-03-19 22:48 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-03-19 23:10 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-20 1:52 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-03-20 2:42 ` pidfd design Daniel Colascione
2019-03-20 3:59 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-20 7:02 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-03-20 11:33 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-03-20 18:26 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-20 18:38 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-03-20 18:51 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-20 18:58 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-03-20 19:14 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-20 19:40 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-03-21 17:02 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-03-25 20:13 ` Jann Horn
2019-03-25 20:23 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-03-25 23:42 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-03-25 23:45 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-26 0:00 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-03-26 0:12 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-26 0:24 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-03-28 9:21 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-20 19:19 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-03-20 19:29 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-03-24 14:44 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2019-03-24 18:48 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-03-20 19:11 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-05-07 2:16 ` [RFC] simple_lmk: Introduce Simple Low Memory Killer for Android Sultan Alsawaf
2019-05-07 7:04 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-05-07 7:27 ` Sultan Alsawaf
2019-05-07 7:43 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-05-07 8:12 ` Sultan Alsawaf
2019-05-07 10:58 ` Christian Brauner
2019-05-07 16:28 ` Suren Baghdasaryan
2019-05-07 16:38 ` Christian Brauner
2019-05-07 16:53 ` Sultan Alsawaf
2019-05-07 20:01 ` Suren Baghdasaryan
2019-05-07 18:46 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-05-07 17:17 ` Sultan Alsawaf
2019-05-07 17:29 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-05-07 11:09 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-05-07 12:26 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-07 15:31 ` Oleg Nesterov
2019-05-07 16:35 ` Sultan Alsawaf
2019-05-09 15:56 ` Oleg Nesterov
2019-05-09 18:33 ` Sultan Alsawaf
2019-05-10 15:10 ` Oleg Nesterov
2019-05-13 16:45 ` Sultan Alsawaf
2019-05-14 16:44 ` Steven Rostedt
2019-05-14 17:31 ` Sultan Alsawaf
2019-05-15 14:58 ` Oleg Nesterov
2019-05-15 17:27 ` Sultan Alsawaf
2019-05-15 18:32 ` Steven Rostedt
2019-05-15 18:52 ` Sultan Alsawaf
2019-05-15 20:09 ` Steven Rostedt
2019-05-16 13:54 ` Oleg Nesterov
2019-03-17 16:35 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2019-03-17 17:11 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-03-17 17:16 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2019-03-17 22:02 ` Suren Baghdasaryan
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