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From: Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>
To: Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>
Cc: "Christoph Hellwig" <hch@infradead.org>,
	devel@driverdev.osuosl.org,
	"Sasha Levin" <alexander.levin@microsoft.com>,
	"Valdis Klētnieks" <valdis.kletnieks@vt.edu>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	"OGAWA Hirofumi" <hirofumi@mail.parknet.co.jp>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] staging: exfat: add exfat filesystem code to staging
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 07:54:10 +1000
Message-ID: <20190830215410.GD7777@dread.disaster.area> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20190829111810.GA23393@kroah.com>

On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 01:18:10PM +0200, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 03:37:49AM -0700, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> > On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 11:50:19AM +0200, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
> > > I know the code is horrible, but I will gladly take horrible code into
> > > staging.  If it bothers you, just please ignore it.  That's what staging
> > > is there for :)
> > 
> > And then after a while you decide it's been long enough and force move
> > it out of staging like the POS erofs code?
> 
> Hey, that's not nice, erofs isn't a POS.  It could always use more
> review, which the developers asked for numerous times.
> 
> There's nothing different from a filesystem compared to a driver.  If
> its stand-alone, and touches nothing else, all issues with it are
> self-contained and do not bother anyone else in the kernel.  We merge

I whole-heartedly disagree with that statement.

The major difference between filesystems and the rest of the kernel
that seems to be missed by most kernel developers is that
filesystems maintain persistent data - you can't fix a problem/bug
by rebooting or power cycling. Once the filesystem code screws up,
the user is left with a mess they have to fix and that invariably
results in data loss.

Users remember when a filesystem eats their data - they don't tend
to want to have anything to do with that filesystem ever again if it
happens to them. We still get people saying "XFS ate my data back in
2002, I dont trust it and I'll never use it again".

Users put up with shit hardware and drivers - it's an inconvenience
more than anything. They don't put up with buggy filesystems that
lose their data - that is completely unacceptible to users.  As a
result, the quality and stability standard for merging a new
filesystem needs to be far higher that what is acceptible for
merging a new driver.

The correct place for new filesystem review is where all the
experienced filesystem developers hang out - that's linux-fsdevel,
not the driver staging tree.

Cheers,

Dave.
-- 
Dave Chinner
david@fromorbit.com

  parent reply index

Thread overview: 70+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-08-28 16:08 Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-08-28 17:00 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-08-29  6:23   ` Christoph Hellwig
2019-08-29  6:39     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-08-29  9:41       ` Christoph Hellwig
2019-08-29  9:50         ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-08-29 10:37           ` Christoph Hellwig
2019-08-29 11:04             ` Gao Xiang
2019-08-29 11:18               ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-08-29 11:18             ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-08-29 15:11               ` Dan Carpenter
2019-08-29 15:27                 ` Gao Xiang
2019-08-29 15:43                   ` Dan Carpenter
2019-08-29 15:51                     ` Gao Xiang
2019-08-29 16:04                       ` Gao Xiang
2019-08-30  8:34                         ` Dan Carpenter
2019-08-30  8:43                           ` Gao Xiang
2019-08-30 11:26                             ` Dan Carpenter
2019-08-30 12:04                               ` Gao Xiang
2019-08-29 16:44                     ` Gao Xiang
2019-08-29 16:59                       ` Joe Perches
2019-08-29 17:02                         ` Gao Xiang
2019-08-30  2:06                     ` Chao Yu
2019-08-30  6:38                       ` Gao Xiang
2019-08-30 12:00                         ` Checking usage of likeliness annotations Markus Elfring
2019-08-30 11:51                       ` [PATCH] staging: exfat: add exfat filesystem code to staging David Sterba
2019-08-31  3:50                         ` Chao Yu
2019-08-30 15:36               ` Christoph Hellwig
2019-08-30 21:54               ` Dave Chinner [this message]
2019-08-31 10:31                 ` Valdis Klētnieks
2019-09-01  0:04                   ` Dave Chinner
2019-08-29  7:01     ` Gao Xiang
2019-08-29  8:24       ` Gao Xiang
2019-08-29  9:51         ` Christoph Hellwig
2019-08-29 12:14 ` Pali Rohár
2019-08-29 12:34   ` Valdis Klētnieks
2019-08-29 12:46     ` Pali Rohár
2019-08-29 14:08 ` Markus Elfring
2019-08-29 15:44 ` Markus Elfring
2019-08-29 20:56 ` Pali Rohár
2019-08-29 23:18   ` Valdis Klētnieks
2019-08-29 23:35     ` Sasha Levin
2019-08-30  7:56       ` Pali Rohár
2019-10-16 14:03         ` Pali Rohár
2019-10-16 14:31           ` Sasha Levin
2019-10-16 16:03             ` Pali Rohár
2019-10-16 16:20               ` Sasha Levin
2019-10-16 16:22               ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-10-16 16:32                 ` Pali Rohár
2019-10-16 16:50                   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-10-16 20:33               ` Sasha Levin
2019-10-16 21:53                 ` Valdis Klētnieks
2019-10-17  7:53                   ` Pali Rohár
2019-10-17  7:50                 ` Pali Rohár
2019-10-16 16:05             ` Valdis Klētnieks
2019-08-30  8:03     ` Pali Rohár
2019-08-30 15:40   ` Christoph Hellwig
2019-08-30 15:43     ` Pali Rohár
2019-09-14 13:39 ` [PATCH] staging: exfat: add exfat filesystem code to Park Ju Hyung
2019-09-15 13:54   ` Greg KH
2019-09-15 16:11     ` Ju Hyung Park
     [not found] ` <20190918195920.25210-1-qkrwngud825@gmail.com>
2019-09-18 20:12   ` [PATCH] staging: exfat: rebase to sdFAT v2.2.0 Greg KH
2019-09-18 20:13   ` Greg KH
2019-09-18 20:22     ` Ju Hyung Park
2019-09-18 20:26       ` Greg KH
2019-09-18 20:31         ` Ju Hyung Park
2019-09-18 20:46           ` Valdis Klētnieks
2019-09-18 21:31   ` kbuild test robot
2019-09-18 21:31   ` kbuild test robot
2019-09-18 22:17     ` Ju Hyung Park

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