From: Daniel Vetter <daniel@ffwll.ch>
To: Chris Wilson <chris@chris-wilson.co.uk>
Cc: "Daniel Vetter" <daniel.vetter@ffwll.ch>,
"amd-gfx mailing list" <amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org>,
linux-rdma <linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org>,
"Intel Graphics Development" <intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org>,
LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
"DRI Development" <dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org>,
"moderated list:DMA BUFFER SHARING FRAMEWORK"
<linaro-mm-sig@lists.linaro.org>,
"Thomas Hellstrom" <thomas.hellstrom@intel.com>,
"Daniel Vetter" <daniel.vetter@intel.com>,
"Mika Kuoppala" <mika.kuoppala@intel.com>,
"Christian König" <christian.koenig@amd.com>,
"Linux Media Mailing List" <linux-media@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [Intel-gfx] [PATCH 03/18] dma-fence: basic lockdep annotations
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 11:43:09 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20200619094309.GT20149@phenom.ffwll.local> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <159255801588.7737.4425728073225310839@build.alporthouse.com>
On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 10:13:35AM +0100, Chris Wilson wrote:
> Quoting Daniel Vetter (2020-06-19 09:51:59)
> > On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 10:25 AM Chris Wilson <chris@chris-wilson.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Forcing a generic primitive to always be part of the same global map is
> > > horrible.
> >
> > And no concrete example or reason for why that's not possible.
> > Because frankly it's not horrible, this is what upstream is all about:
> > Shared concepts, shared contracts, shared code.
> >
> > The proposed patches might very well encode the wrong contract, that's
> > all up for discussion. But fundamentally questioning that we need one
> > is missing what upstream is all about.
>
> Then I have not clearly communicated, as my opinion is not that
> validation is worthless, but that the implementation is enshrining a
> global property on a low level primitive that prevents it from being
> used elsewhere. And I want to replace completion [chains] with fences, and
> bio with fences, and closures with fences, and what other equivalencies
> there are in the kernel. The fence is as central a locking construct as
> struct completion and deserves to be a foundational primitive provided
> by kernel/ used throughout all drivers for discrete problem domains.
>
> This is narrowing dma_fence whereby adding
> struct lockdep_map *dma_fence::wait_map
> and annotating linkage, allows you to continue to specify that all
> dma_fence used for a particular purpose must follow common rules,
> without restricting the primitive for uses outside of this scope.
Somewhere else in this thread I had discussions with Jason Gunthorpe about
this topic. It might maybe change somewhat depending upon exact rules, but
his take is very much "I don't want dma_fence in rdma". Or pretty close to
that at least.
Similar discussions with habanalabs, they're using dma_fence internally
without any of the uapi. Discussion there has also now concluded that it's
best if they remove them, and simply switch over to a wait_queue or
completion like every other driver does.
The next round of the patches already have a paragraph to at least
somewhat limit how non-gpu drivers use dma_fence. And I guess actual
consensus might be pointing even more strongly at dma_fence being solely
something for gpus and closely related subsystem (maybe media) for syncing
dma-buf access.
So dma_fence as general replacement for completion chains I think just
wont happen.
What might make sense is if e.g. the lockdep annotations could be reused,
at least in design, for wait_queue or completion or anything else
really. I do think that has a fair chance compared to the automagic
cross-release annotations approach, which relied way too heavily on
guessing where barriers are. My experience from just a bit of playing
around with these patches here and discussing them with other driver
maintainers is that accurately deciding where critical sections start and
end is a job for humans only. And if you get it wrong, you will have a
false positive.
And you're indeed correct that if we'd do annotations for completions and
wait queues, then that would need to have a class per semantically
equivalent user, like we have lockdep classes for mutexes, not just one
overall.
But dma_fence otoh is something very specific, which comes with very
specific rules attached - it's not a generic wait_queue at all. Originally
it did start out as one even, but it is a very specialized wait_queue.
So there's imo two cases:
- Your completion is entirely orthogonal of dma_fences, and can never ever
block a dma_fence. Don't use dma_fence for this, and no problem. It's
just another wait_queue somewhere.
- Your completion can eventually, maybe through lots of convolutions and
depdencies, block a dma_fence. In that case full dma_fence rules apply,
and the only thing you can do with a custom annotation is make the rules
even stricter. E.g. if a sub-timeline in the scheduler isn't allowed to
take certain scheduler locks. But the userspace visible/published fence
do take them, maybe as part of command submission or retirement.
Entirely hypotethical, no idea any driver actually needs this.
Cheers, Daniel
--
Daniel Vetter
Software Engineer, Intel Corporation
http://blog.ffwll.ch
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-06-19 9:43 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 99+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-06-04 8:12 [PATCH 00/18] dma-fence lockdep annotations, round 2 Daniel Vetter
2020-06-04 8:12 ` [PATCH 01/18] mm: Track mmu notifiers in fs_reclaim_acquire/release Daniel Vetter
2020-06-10 12:01 ` Thomas Hellström (Intel)
2020-06-10 12:25 ` [Intel-gfx] " Daniel Vetter
2020-06-10 19:41 ` [PATCH] " Daniel Vetter
2020-06-11 14:29 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2020-06-21 17:42 ` Qian Cai
2020-06-21 18:07 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-06-21 20:01 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-06-21 22:09 ` Qian Cai
2020-06-23 16:17 ` Qian Cai
2020-06-23 22:13 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-06-23 22:29 ` Qian Cai
2020-06-23 22:31 ` Dave Chinner
2020-06-23 22:36 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-06-21 17:00 ` [PATCH 01/18] " Qian Cai
2020-06-21 17:28 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-06-21 17:46 ` Qian Cai
2020-06-04 8:12 ` [PATCH 02/18] dma-buf: minor doc touch-ups Daniel Vetter
2020-06-10 13:07 ` Thomas Hellström (Intel)
2020-06-04 8:12 ` [PATCH 03/18] dma-fence: basic lockdep annotations Daniel Vetter
2020-06-04 8:57 ` Thomas Hellström (Intel)
2020-06-04 9:21 ` Daniel Vetter
[not found] ` <159126281827.25109.3992161193069793005@build.alporthouse.com>
2020-06-04 9:36 ` [Intel-gfx] " Daniel Vetter
2020-06-05 13:29 ` [PATCH] " Daniel Vetter
2020-06-05 14:30 ` Thomas Hellström (Intel)
2020-06-11 9:57 ` Maarten Lankhorst
2020-06-10 14:21 ` [Intel-gfx] [PATCH 03/18] " Tvrtko Ursulin
2020-06-10 15:17 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-06-11 10:36 ` Tvrtko Ursulin
2020-06-11 11:29 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-06-11 14:29 ` Tvrtko Ursulin
2020-06-11 15:03 ` Daniel Vetter
[not found] ` <159186243606.1506.4437341616828968890@build.alporthouse.com>
2020-06-11 8:44 ` Dave Airlie
2020-06-11 9:01 ` [Intel-gfx] " Daniel Stone
[not found] ` <159255511144.7737.12635440776531222029@build.alporthouse.com>
2020-06-19 8:51 ` Daniel Vetter
[not found] ` <159255801588.7737.4425728073225310839@build.alporthouse.com>
2020-06-19 9:43 ` Daniel Vetter [this message]
[not found] ` <159257233754.7737.17318605310513355800@build.alporthouse.com>
2020-06-22 9:16 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-07-09 7:29 ` Daniel Stone
2020-07-09 8:01 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-06-04 8:12 ` [PATCH 04/18] dma-fence: prime " Daniel Vetter
2020-06-11 7:30 ` [Linaro-mm-sig] " Thomas Hellström (Intel)
2020-06-11 8:34 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-06-11 14:15 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2020-06-11 23:35 ` Felix Kuehling
2020-06-12 5:11 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-06-19 18:13 ` Jerome Glisse
2020-06-23 7:39 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-06-23 18:44 ` Felix Kuehling
2020-06-23 19:02 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-06-16 12:07 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-06-16 14:53 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2020-06-17 7:57 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-06-17 15:29 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2020-06-18 14:42 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-06-17 6:48 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-06-17 15:28 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2020-06-18 15:00 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-06-18 17:23 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2020-06-19 7:22 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-06-19 11:39 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2020-06-19 15:06 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-06-19 15:15 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2020-06-19 16:19 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-06-19 17:23 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2020-06-19 18:09 ` Jerome Glisse
2020-06-19 18:18 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2020-06-19 19:48 ` Felix Kuehling
2020-06-19 19:55 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2020-06-19 20:03 ` Felix Kuehling
2020-06-19 20:31 ` Jerome Glisse
2020-06-22 11:46 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2020-06-22 20:15 ` Jerome Glisse
2020-06-23 0:02 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2020-06-19 20:10 ` Jerome Glisse
2020-06-19 20:43 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-06-19 20:59 ` Jerome Glisse
2020-06-23 0:05 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2020-06-19 19:11 ` Alex Deucher
2020-06-19 19:30 ` Felix Kuehling
2020-06-19 19:40 ` Jerome Glisse
2020-06-19 19:51 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2020-06-04 8:12 ` [PATCH 05/18] drm/vkms: Annotate vblank timer Daniel Vetter
2020-06-04 8:12 ` [PATCH 06/18] drm/vblank: Annotate with dma-fence signalling section Daniel Vetter
2020-06-04 8:12 ` [PATCH 07/18] drm/atomic-helper: Add dma-fence annotations Daniel Vetter
2020-06-04 8:12 ` [PATCH 08/18] drm/amdgpu: add dma-fence annotations to atomic commit path Daniel Vetter
2020-06-23 10:51 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-06-04 8:12 ` [PATCH 09/18] drm/scheduler: use dma-fence annotations in main thread Daniel Vetter
2020-06-04 8:12 ` [PATCH 10/18] drm/amdgpu: use dma-fence annotations in cs_submit() Daniel Vetter
2020-06-04 8:12 ` [PATCH 11/18] drm/amdgpu: s/GFP_KERNEL/GFP_ATOMIC in scheduler code Daniel Vetter
2020-06-04 8:12 ` [PATCH 12/18] drm/amdgpu: DC also loves to allocate stuff where it shouldn't Daniel Vetter
2020-06-04 8:12 ` [PATCH 13/18] drm/amdgpu/dc: Stop dma_resv_lock inversion in commit_tail Daniel Vetter
2020-06-05 8:30 ` Pierre-Eric Pelloux-Prayer
2020-06-05 12:41 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-06-04 8:12 ` [PATCH 14/18] drm/scheduler: use dma-fence annotations in tdr work Daniel Vetter
2020-06-04 8:12 ` [PATCH 15/18] drm/amdgpu: use dma-fence annotations for gpu reset code Daniel Vetter
2020-06-04 8:12 ` [PATCH 16/18] Revert "drm/amdgpu: add fbdev suspend/resume on gpu reset" Daniel Vetter
2020-06-04 8:12 ` [PATCH 17/18] drm/amdgpu: gpu recovery does full modesets Daniel Vetter
2020-06-04 8:12 ` [PATCH 18/18] drm/i915: Annotate dma_fence_work Daniel Vetter
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=20200619094309.GT20149@phenom.ffwll.local \
--to=daniel@ffwll.ch \
--cc=amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org \
--cc=chris@chris-wilson.co.uk \
--cc=christian.koenig@amd.com \
--cc=daniel.vetter@ffwll.ch \
--cc=daniel.vetter@intel.com \
--cc=dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org \
--cc=intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org \
--cc=linaro-mm-sig@lists.linaro.org \
--cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=linux-media@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=mika.kuoppala@intel.com \
--cc=thomas.hellstrom@intel.com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).