From: Arvind Sankar <nivedita@alum.mit.edu>
To: Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>
Cc: "Harrosh, Boaz" <Boaz.Harrosh@netapp.com>,
Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
ksummit <ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
"tech-board-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org"
<tech-board-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
Chris Mason <clm@fb.clm>
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH] CodingStyle: Inclusive Terminology
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 17:48:04 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20200707214804.GA1582632@rani.riverdale.lan> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <202007070137.3ADBEDC@keescook>
On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 01:54:23AM -0700, Kees Cook wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 06:56:53AM +0000, Harrosh, Boaz wrote:
> > Kees Cook wrote:
> > > I have struggled with this as well. The parts of speech change, and my
> > > grammar senses go weird. whitelist = adjective noun. allow-list = verb
> > > noun. verbing the adj/noun combo feels okay, but verbing a verb/noun is
> > > weird.
> >
> > > And just using "allowed" and "denied" doesn't impart whether it refers
> > > to a _single_ instance or a _list_ of instances.
> >
> > > But that's all fine. The change is easy to do and is more descriptive
> > > even if I can't find terms that don't collide with my internal grammar
> > > checker. ;)
> >
> > But why. In English many times a verb when it comes before the noun means an adjective, or an adjective like, describing some traits of the noun.
>
> This is kind of my problem being a native English speaker: I can't
> entirely describe _why_ a grammar construct feels wrong. :(
>
> > Example:
> > I work - work is a verb here.
> > I used the work bench. - Work is saying something about the type of bench, an adjective. Same as you would say "I used the green bench".
>
> Right, so the verb-noun being used as a noun is find, just as adj-noun
> is. To me, "add it to the allow-list" is entirely sensible just like
> "set it on the work-bench." It's the "verbing" of a noun that trips me
> up.
>
> "I will whitelist the syscall" -- sounds correct to me (same for
> "it is whitelisted" or "it is in whitelisting mode").
>
> "I will allow-list the syscall" -- sounds wrong to me (same for
> "it is allow-listed" or "it is in allow-listing mode").
I suspect it's at least partly because "allow" and "list" are both verbs
-- in fact, "list" is the actual verb in "I will allow-list it", and
"allow" is being used to modify the verb "list". But because "allow" is
usually a verb, the sentence sounds like there are two verbs in there
when there should only be one. I expect our ears will get trained to
accept that sentence once you encounter "allowlist" often enough.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-07-07 21:48 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 92+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-07-04 20:02 [PATCH] CodingStyle: Inclusive Terminology Dan Williams
2020-07-04 20:31 ` Randy Dunlap
2020-07-04 23:41 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Dave Airlie
[not found] ` <CAFhKne9MA_G-UsvBFfX-gZRcu9Gb7Xt7UxQ14MTppdU3X1VYdQ@mail.gmail.com>
2020-07-05 1:10 ` [Tech-board-discuss] " Kees Cook
2020-07-05 2:44 ` Randy Dunlap
2020-07-06 11:15 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [Tech-board-discuss] " Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-07-06 15:53 ` Kees Cook
2020-07-05 2:54 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Dave Airlie
2020-07-04 20:44 ` Stephen Rothwell
2020-07-04 23:34 ` Dave Airlie
2020-07-05 2:12 ` Stephen Rothwell
2020-07-05 2:56 ` Dave Airlie
2020-07-05 3:23 ` James Bottomley
2020-07-05 3:26 ` Stephen Rothwell
2020-07-04 21:14 ` Olof Johansson
2020-07-04 21:25 ` [Tech-board-discuss] " James Bottomley
2020-07-04 21:51 ` Joe Perches
2020-07-04 23:39 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Dave Airlie
2020-07-05 0:08 ` Joe Perches
2020-07-05 1:32 ` Kees Cook
2020-07-05 17:50 ` opal hart
2020-07-04 23:42 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Dave Airlie
2020-07-05 0:41 ` Kees Cook
2020-07-07 4:30 ` Dan Williams
2020-07-10 16:52 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-05 4:55 ` Willy Tarreau
2020-07-06 3:13 ` Daniel Palmer
2020-07-06 12:45 ` Chris Mason
2020-07-06 14:06 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Laurent Pinchart
2020-07-06 15:55 ` Chris Mason
2020-07-06 16:06 ` Mike Rapoport
2020-07-07 4:17 ` Dan Williams
2020-07-06 15:22 ` Arvind Sankar
2020-07-06 15:40 ` [Tech-board-discuss] " Steven Rostedt
[not found] ` <CAFhKne_ZVWVhZX5hNEbeGBfU6BMRN9JKQeTsVYOcMmEH1cd3xg@mail.gmail.com>
2020-07-06 7:06 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " NeilBrown
2020-07-06 7:10 ` NeilBrown
2020-07-06 7:22 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2020-07-06 7:53 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2020-07-06 10:22 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2020-07-06 12:51 ` Matthew Wilcox
2020-07-06 12:59 ` Joe Perches
2020-07-06 13:04 ` Matthew Wilcox
2020-07-06 13:30 ` Joe Perches
2020-07-09 11:11 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2020-07-13 4:25 ` Vinod Koul
2020-07-13 15:55 ` Dan Williams
2020-07-06 13:23 ` Tibor Raschko
2020-07-06 16:29 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-07 4:00 ` Dan Williams
2020-07-07 5:56 ` Kees Cook
2020-07-07 6:49 ` Mike Rapoport
2020-07-07 13:37 ` [Tech-board-discuss] " Steven Rostedt
2020-07-07 15:24 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [Tech-board-discuss] " Bird, Tim
2020-07-07 15:33 ` Randy Dunlap
2020-07-07 15:41 ` Steven Rostedt
2020-07-07 15:55 ` Bird, Tim
2020-07-07 6:56 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Harrosh, Boaz
2020-07-07 8:54 ` Kees Cook
2020-07-07 13:41 ` [Tech-board-discuss] " Steven Rostedt
2020-07-07 14:45 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [Tech-board-discuss] " Mike Rapoport
2020-07-07 20:56 ` Kees Cook
2020-07-07 21:48 ` Arvind Sankar [this message]
2020-07-07 12:13 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Mark Brown
2020-07-06 18:30 ` [Tech-board-discuss] " Shuah Khan
2020-07-06 23:58 ` Tibor Raschko
2020-07-09 10:43 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2020-07-09 16:01 ` Shuah Khan
2020-07-09 16:13 ` [Tech-board-discuss] [Ksummit-discuss] " Mark Brown
2020-07-09 16:32 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [Tech-board-discuss] " James Bottomley
2020-07-09 16:35 ` [Tech-board-discuss] [Ksummit-discuss] " Steven Rostedt
2020-07-10 9:38 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [Tech-board-discuss] " Tibor Raschko
2020-07-07 4:04 ` Dan Williams
2020-07-06 19:15 ` Mark Brown
2020-07-07 0:48 ` Tibor Raschko
2020-07-07 21:26 ` Arvind Sankar
2020-07-07 23:54 ` Tibor Raschko
2020-07-07 4:08 ` Dan Williams
2020-07-07 9:36 ` Mark Brown
2020-07-06 21:31 ` Pavel Begunkov
2020-07-06 22:10 ` [Tech-board-discuss] " Steven Rostedt
2020-07-06 22:17 ` Pavel Begunkov
2020-07-06 22:28 ` Steven Rostedt
2020-07-06 23:03 ` Pavel Begunkov
2020-07-08 3:42 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Stephen Hemminger
2020-07-08 10:51 ` Pavel Begunkov
2020-07-07 6:56 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " SeongJae Park
2020-07-08 7:12 ` Dan Williams
2020-07-08 9:28 ` SeongJae Park
2020-07-07 7:51 ` Christian Brauner
2020-07-08 18:40 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-07-17 8:35 ` Pavel Machek
2020-07-26 15:30 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Laurent Pinchart
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