From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C501EC433E0 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2020 21:48:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A11B206DF for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2020 21:48:09 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="S6Ta1Kv+" Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1729161AbgGGVsI (ORCPT ); Tue, 7 Jul 2020 17:48:08 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:36134 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1728802AbgGGVsH (ORCPT ); Tue, 7 Jul 2020 17:48:07 -0400 Received: from mail-qt1-x843.google.com (mail-qt1-x843.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::843]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFB60C061755 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2020 14:48:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x843.google.com with SMTP id g13so32980203qtv.8 for ; Tue, 07 Jul 2020 14:48:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:date:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=kea5lz5SuEVjMYthwUPDUREfiUZ4imDQ4+lMs08zB6U=; b=S6Ta1Kv+P7Eg1sW5CWt+ahJt07X+1kO7D8SmRfRyR/GN3XSrYWuchEH82VMppIlBTm 9rNp0tV1WORXPSiQPYBv/W9eRs9VHILhguUh4V0kIsX/5fsa4wlaSiqsjPCRAf5Je704 V7gte79Kr6uk6ZsRX1e81zPc0/iReVb6G4Or31edv7NGdpfHo8GDT6wRiu2HByS4qnjK UK1HQM+2S+whIr63pSsErzlA8Y4uoqIKDdNI9QOliKKcnBcBL4+k+rRKgCqkWAx05iv7 qdqeL5Xhw1NAUsM6Z+3BtcEMQZKpG9sMavMaZ5c6V8VE7JQFvcL+vQ665tie91AGCHLb eZrw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:date:to:cc:subject:message-id :references:mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=kea5lz5SuEVjMYthwUPDUREfiUZ4imDQ4+lMs08zB6U=; b=ZIG7kTcsbiQr2Qjvc3aznJ9QOwGIuK40aqP8zcL6exJhkBiOdpJlA4yhX+x90Gfyso vZY8OTmyFkkQ4wy5SInlX23V8XX0EiIRh7/STGiwoYPkjhjZWk/Tb0fHqbxV31Cex83v Kx+lyXXtgdvhAZBzePDvz5vhQL2ecUj3vFc9hCS+gY2ZmsfOrZVNa37v306YpsrizSwi XbraEUvzsCoO/PFAvCYM5uNrR36yOTIX4T9YLx4htOVrZGAnOwsAuF34n4ZfZwMnxll/ Qii0R97jnmgkTfV9afY4skiiBU3LH/Je/PJgGuy24ktBWvcb1setUaINOqHjHou7/fkk EzhA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530N17njY/Ha4rMALjksfQjtSdFfGzhTE/7/q4xP/uJ8ft3Ghi2M 3Le7GVURa0qKfduOszqrydU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwST4ORT9+NOST6EufPbIia2FmPxXFBTvW3IBn571c6j8gcIDV2QsJHi3xAKoz99PN6PV84vA== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:4250:: with SMTP id r16mr43504761qtm.378.1594158486843; Tue, 07 Jul 2020 14:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rani.riverdale.lan ([2001:470:1f07:5f3::b55f]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t48sm29525053qtb.50.2020.07.07.14.48.06 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 07 Jul 2020 14:48:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Arvind Sankar X-Google-Original-From: Arvind Sankar Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 17:48:04 -0400 To: Kees Cook Cc: "Harrosh, Boaz" , Andy Lutomirski , ksummit , Greg Kroah-Hartman , LKML , "tech-board-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" , Chris Mason Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH] CodingStyle: Inclusive Terminology Message-ID: <20200707214804.GA1582632@rani.riverdale.lan> References: <159389297140.2210796.13590142254668787525.stgit@dwillia2-desk3.amr.corp.intel.com> <202007062234.A90F922DF@keescook> <202007070137.3ADBEDC@keescook> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <202007070137.3ADBEDC@keescook> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 01:54:23AM -0700, Kees Cook wrote: > On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 06:56:53AM +0000, Harrosh, Boaz wrote: > > Kees Cook wrote: > > > I have struggled with this as well. The parts of speech change, and my > > > grammar senses go weird. whitelist = adjective noun. allow-list = verb > > > noun. verbing the adj/noun combo feels okay, but verbing a verb/noun is > > > weird. > > > > > And just using "allowed" and "denied" doesn't impart whether it refers > > > to a _single_ instance or a _list_ of instances. > > > > > But that's all fine. The change is easy to do and is more descriptive > > > even if I can't find terms that don't collide with my internal grammar > > > checker. ;) > > > > But why. In English many times a verb when it comes before the noun means an adjective, or an adjective like, describing some traits of the noun. > > This is kind of my problem being a native English speaker: I can't > entirely describe _why_ a grammar construct feels wrong. :( > > > Example: > > I work - work is a verb here. > > I used the work bench. - Work is saying something about the type of bench, an adjective. Same as you would say "I used the green bench". > > Right, so the verb-noun being used as a noun is find, just as adj-noun > is. To me, "add it to the allow-list" is entirely sensible just like > "set it on the work-bench." It's the "verbing" of a noun that trips me > up. > > "I will whitelist the syscall" -- sounds correct to me (same for > "it is whitelisted" or "it is in whitelisting mode"). > > "I will allow-list the syscall" -- sounds wrong to me (same for > "it is allow-listed" or "it is in allow-listing mode"). I suspect it's at least partly because "allow" and "list" are both verbs -- in fact, "list" is the actual verb in "I will allow-list it", and "allow" is being used to modify the verb "list". But because "allow" is usually a verb, the sentence sounds like there are two verbs in there when there should only be one. I expect our ears will get trained to accept that sentence once you encounter "allowlist" often enough.