From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.2 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68F4DC433E2 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:54:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15BBF2087D for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:54:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1728563AbgIPUyl (ORCPT ); Wed, 16 Sep 2020 16:54:41 -0400 Received: from jabberwock.ucw.cz ([46.255.230.98]:43338 "EHLO jabberwock.ucw.cz" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726904AbgIPUyh (ORCPT ); Wed, 16 Sep 2020 16:54:37 -0400 Received: by jabberwock.ucw.cz (Postfix, from userid 1017) id DC5031C0B76; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 22:54:34 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 22:54:34 +0200 From: Pavel Machek To: Linus Torvalds Cc: Randy Dunlap , LKML , "linux-doc@vger.kernel.org" , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Daniel Vetter , Yuan Ming , Willy Tarreau , Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz , NopNop Nop , =?utf-8?B?5byg5LqR5rW3?= , Andy Lutomirski Subject: Re: fbcon: remove soft scrollback code (missing Doc. patch) Message-ID: <20200916205434.GA10389@duo.ucw.cz> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="bp/iNruPH9dso1Pn" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org --bp/iNruPH9dso1Pn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon 2020-09-14 18:28:34, Linus Torvalds wrote: > On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 6:19 PM Randy Dunlap wrot= e: > > > > Now someone can remove the documentation for scrollback (and "no-scroll= ")... >=20 > Note that scrollback hasn't actually gone away entirely - the original > scrollback supported by _hardware_ still exists. >=20 > Of course, that's really just the old-fashioned text VGA console, but > that one actually scrolls not by moving any bytes around, but by > moving the screen start address. And the scrollback similarly isn't > about any software buffering, but about the ability of moving back > that screen start address. >=20 > Do people use that? Probably not. But it wasn't removed because it > didn't have any of the complexities and bitrot that all the software > buffering code had. >=20 > That said, I didn't check how much of the documentation is for the VGA > text console, and how much of it is for the actual software scrollback > for fbcon etc. So it is entirely possible that all the docs are about > the removed parts. Could we pause this madness? Scrollback is still useful. I needed it today... it was too small, so command results I was looking for already scrolled away, but... life will be really painful with 0 scrollback. You'll need it, too... as soon as you get oops and will want to see errors just prior to that oops. If it means I get to maintain it... I'm not happy about it but that's better than no scrollback. Kernel is now very verbose, so important messages during bootup scroll away. It is way bigger deal when you can no longer get to them using shift-pageup. fsck is rather verbose, too, and there's no easy way to run that under X terminal... and yes, that makes scrollback very useful, too. Best regards, Pavel --=20 (english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek (cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blo= g.html --bp/iNruPH9dso1Pn Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EABECAB0WIQRPfPO7r0eAhk010v0w5/Bqldv68gUCX2J7igAKCRAw5/Bqldv6 8uAQAKCJl9d/+C94slkWoDEqnA9Sxe/f1ACePzzUiVttoyERR+W9wtLGIlFDYHU= =//6K -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --bp/iNruPH9dso1Pn--