linux-kernel.vger.kernel.org archive mirror
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Torsten Duwe <duwe@lst.de>
To: "Theodore Y. Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>
Cc: linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org, "Nicolai Stange" <nstange@suse.de>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Arnd Bergmann" <arnd@arndb.de>,
	"Greg Kroah-Hartman" <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	"Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@xmission.com>,
	"Alexander E. Patrakov" <patrakov@gmail.com>,
	"Ahmed S. Darwish" <darwish.07@gmail.com>,
	"Willy Tarreau" <w@1wt.eu>,
	"Matthew Garrett" <mjg59@srcf.ucam.org>,
	"Vito Caputo" <vcaputo@pengaru.com>,
	"Andreas Dilger" <adilger.kernel@dilger.ca>,
	"Jan Kara" <jack@suse.cz>, "Ray Strode" <rstrode@redhat.com>,
	"William Jon McCann" <mccann@jhu.edu>,
	zhangjs <zachary@baishancloud.com>,
	"Andy Lutomirski" <luto@kernel.org>,
	"Florian Weimer" <fweimer@redhat.com>,
	"Lennart Poettering" <mzxreary@0pointer.de>,
	"Peter Matthias" <matthias.peter@bsi.bund.de>,
	"Marcelo Henrique Cerri" <marcelo.cerri@canonical.com>,
	"Neil Horman" <nhorman@redhat.com>,
	"Randy Dunlap" <rdunlap@infradead.org>,
	"Julia Lawall" <julia.lawall@inria.fr>,
	"Dan Carpenter" <dan.carpenter@oracle.com>,
	"Andy Lavr" <andy.lavr@gmail.com>,
	"Eric Biggers" <ebiggers@kernel.org>,
	"Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com>,
	"Stephan Müller" <smueller@chronox.de>,
	"Petr Tesarik" <ptesarik@suse.cz>
Subject: Re: [DISCUSSION PATCH 00/41] random: possible ways towards NIST SP800-90B compliance
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2020 14:38:36 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20201002123836.GA14807@lst.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200921075857.4424-1-nstange@suse.de>

Almost two weeks passed and these are the "relevant" replies:

Jason personally does not like FIPS, and is afraid of
"subpar crypto". Albeit this patch set strictly isn't about
crypto at all; the crypto subsystem is in the unlucky position
to just depend on a good entropy source.

Greg claims that Linux (kernel) isn't about choice, which is clearly
wrong.

And this is all ???

There are options for stack protection. I can see bounds checking
and other sanity checks all over the place. And doing a similar thing
on entropy sources is a problem?

Admittedly, if entropy sources fail, the kernel will happily remain
running. No bad immediate effects in userland will arise. Only some
cryptographic algorithms, otherwise very decent, will run on
unneccessarily weak keys, probably causing some real-world problems.
Does anybody care?
The NIST and the BSI do, but that does not mean their solutions are
automatically wrong or backdoored.

There is now a well layed-out scheme to ensure quality randomness,
and a lot of work here has been put into its implementation.

Would some maintainer please comment on potential problems or
shortcomings? Otherwise a "Thanks, applied" would be appropriate, IMO.

	Torsten


  parent reply	other threads:[~2020-10-02 12:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 84+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-09-21  7:58 [DISCUSSION PATCH 00/41] random: possible ways towards NIST SP800-90B compliance Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 01/41] random: remove dead code in credit_entropy_bits() Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 02/41] random: remove dead code for nbits < 0 " Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 03/41] random: prune dead assignment to entropy_bits " Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 04/41] random: drop 'reserved' parameter from extract_entropy() Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 05/41] random: don't reset entropy to zero on overflow Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 06/41] random: factor the exponential approximation in credit_entropy_bits() out Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 07/41] random: let pool_entropy_delta() take nbits in units of 2^-ENTROPY_SHIFT Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 08/41] random: introduce __credit_entropy_bits_fast() for hot paths Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 09/41] random: protect ->entropy_count with the pool spinlock Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 10/41] random: implement support for delayed entropy dispatching Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 11/41] random: convert add_timer_randomness() to queued_entropy API Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 12/41] random: convert add_interrupt_randomness() " Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 13/41] random: convert try_to_generate_entropy() " Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 14/41] random: drop __credit_entropy_bits_fast() Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 15/41] random: convert add_hwgenerator_randomness() to queued_entropy API Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 16/41] random: convert random_ioctl() " Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 17/41] random: drop credit_entropy_bits() and credit_entropy_bits_safe() Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 18/41] random: move arch_get_random_seed() calls in crng_reseed() into own loop Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 19/41] random: reintroduce arch_has_random() + arch_has_random_seed() Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 20/41] random: provide min_crng_reseed_pool_entropy() Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 21/41] random: don't invoke arch_get_random_long() from add_interrupt_randomness() Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 22/41] random: introduce arch_has_sp800_90b_random_seed() Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 23/41] random: don't award entropy to non-SP800-90B arch RNGs in FIPS mode Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 24/41] init: call time_init() before rand_initialize() Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 25/41] random: probe cycle counter resolution at initialization Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 26/41] random: implement support for evaluating larger fast_pool entropies Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 27/41] random: increase per-IRQ event entropy estimate if in FIPS mode Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 28/41] random: don't award entropy to disk + input events " Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 29/41] random: move definition of struct queued_entropy and related API upwards Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 30/41] random: add a queued_entropy instance to struct fast_pool Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 31/41] random: introduce struct health_test + health_test_reset() placeholders Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 32/41] random: introduce health test stub and wire it up Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 33/41] random: make health_test_process() maintain the get_cycles() delta Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 34/41] random: implement the "Adaptive Proportion" NIST SP800-90B health test Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 35/41] random: improve the APT's statistical power Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 36/41] random: optimize the APT's presearch Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 37/41] random: implement the "Repetition Count" NIST SP800-90B health test Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 38/41] random: enable NIST SP800-90B startup tests Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 39/41] random: make the startup tests include muliple APT invocations Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 40/41] random: trigger startup health test on any failure of the health tests Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  7:58 ` [RFC PATCH 41/41] random: lower per-IRQ entropy estimate upon health test failure Nicolai Stange
2020-09-21  8:09 ` [DISCUSSION PATCH 00/41] random: possible ways towards NIST SP800-90B compliance Jason A. Donenfeld
2020-09-21  8:40 ` Stephan Mueller
2020-09-22 13:23   ` Torsten Duwe
2020-09-22 16:21     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2020-09-22 17:48       ` Torsten Duwe
2020-10-02 12:38 ` Torsten Duwe [this message]
2020-10-02 13:15   ` Willy Tarreau
2020-10-02 13:33     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2020-10-02 14:05       ` Torsten Duwe
2020-10-02 13:56     ` Stephan Mueller
2020-10-16 17:26       ` Torsten Duwe
2020-10-19 19:28         ` [PATCH v36 00/13] /dev/random - a new approach Stephan Müller
2020-10-19 19:30           ` [PATCH v36 01/13] Linux Random Number Generator Stephan Müller
2020-10-19 19:31           ` [PATCH v36 02/13] LRNG - allocate one DRNG instance per NUMA node Stephan Müller
2020-10-19 19:32           ` [PATCH v36 03/13] LRNG - sysctls and /proc interface Stephan Müller
2020-10-19 19:32           ` [PATCH v36 04/13] LRNG - add switchable DRNG support Stephan Müller
2020-10-19 19:33           ` [PATCH v36 05/13] LRNG - add common generic hash support Stephan Müller
2020-10-19 19:34           ` [PATCH v36 06/13] crypto: DRBG - externalize DRBG functions for LRNG Stephan Müller
2020-10-19 19:34           ` [PATCH v36 07/13] LRNG - add SP800-90A DRBG extension Stephan Müller
2020-10-19 19:35           ` [PATCH v36 08/13] LRNG - add kernel crypto API PRNG extension Stephan Müller
2020-10-19 19:35           ` [PATCH v36 09/13] crypto: provide access to a static Jitter RNG state Stephan Müller
2020-10-19 19:36           ` [PATCH v36 10/13] LRNG - add Jitter RNG fast noise source Stephan Müller
2020-10-19 19:37           ` [PATCH v36 11/13] LRNG - add SP800-90B compliant health tests Stephan Müller
2020-10-19 19:37           ` [PATCH v36 12/13] LRNG - add interface for gathering of raw entropy Stephan Müller
2020-10-19 19:38           ` [PATCH v36 13/13] LRNG - add power-on and runtime self-tests Stephan Müller
2020-10-28 17:51           ` [PATCH v36 00/13] /dev/random - a new approach Torsten Duwe
2020-10-28 18:07             ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2020-11-02 13:44               ` Torsten Duwe
2020-11-04 14:26                 ` Marcelo Henrique Cerri
2020-11-17 14:01                 ` Torsten Duwe
2020-11-10 10:22           ` Stephan Mueller
2020-10-02 13:35   ` [DISCUSSION PATCH 00/41] random: possible ways towards NIST SP800-90B compliance Van Leeuwen, Pascal
2020-10-02 14:04     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2020-10-02 14:34       ` Van Leeuwen, Pascal
2020-10-02 15:13         ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2020-10-02 15:39           ` Van Leeuwen, Pascal
2020-10-02 16:30             ` Randy Dunlap
2020-10-02 18:14             ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2020-10-02 19:09               ` Van Leeuwen, Pascal
2020-10-07  4:24   ` Eric Biggers
2020-10-07  5:52     ` Stephan Mueller
2020-10-07 10:38     ` Nicolai Stange

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=20201002123836.GA14807@lst.de \
    --to=duwe@lst.de \
    --cc=Jason@zx2c4.com \
    --cc=adilger.kernel@dilger.ca \
    --cc=andy.lavr@gmail.com \
    --cc=arnd@arndb.de \
    --cc=dan.carpenter@oracle.com \
    --cc=darwish.07@gmail.com \
    --cc=ebiederm@xmission.com \
    --cc=ebiggers@kernel.org \
    --cc=fweimer@redhat.com \
    --cc=gregkh@linuxfoundation.org \
    --cc=jack@suse.cz \
    --cc=julia.lawall@inria.fr \
    --cc=linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=luto@kernel.org \
    --cc=marcelo.cerri@canonical.com \
    --cc=matthias.peter@bsi.bund.de \
    --cc=mccann@jhu.edu \
    --cc=mjg59@srcf.ucam.org \
    --cc=mzxreary@0pointer.de \
    --cc=nhorman@redhat.com \
    --cc=nstange@suse.de \
    --cc=patrakov@gmail.com \
    --cc=ptesarik@suse.cz \
    --cc=rdunlap@infradead.org \
    --cc=rstrode@redhat.com \
    --cc=smueller@chronox.de \
    --cc=tytso@mit.edu \
    --cc=vcaputo@pengaru.com \
    --cc=w@1wt.eu \
    --cc=zachary@baishancloud.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body. 
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).