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From: Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>
To: Arnd Bergmann <arnd@kernel.org>
Cc: "Baruch Siach" <baruch@tkos.co.il>,
	"Geert Uytterhoeven" <geert+renesas@glider.be>,
	"Neil Armstrong" <narmstrong@baylibre.com>,
	"Viresh Kumar" <viresh.kumar@linaro.org>,
	"Linus Walleij" <linus.walleij@linaro.org>,
	"Daniel Tang" <dt.tangr@gmail.com>,
	"Jamie Iles" <jamie@jamieiles.com>,
	"Krzysztof Adamski" <krzysztof.adamski@nokia.com>,
	"Alexander Shiyan" <shc_work@mail.ru>,
	"Michael Ellerman" <mpe@ellerman.id.au>,
	"Yoshinori Sato" <ysato@users.osdn.me>,
	"Russell King - ARM Linux" <linux@armlinux.org.uk>,
	"Wei Xu" <xuwei5@hisilicon.com>,
	"Oleksij Rempel" <o.rempel@pengutronix.de>,
	"Alex Elder" <elder@linaro.org>,
	"Marc Gonzalez" <marc.w.gonzalez@free.fr>,
	"Hans Ulli Kroll" <ulli.kroll@googlemail.com>,
	"Uwe Kleine-König" <u.kleine-koenig@pengutronix.de>,
	"Steven Rostedt" <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	"Vladimir Zapolskiy" <vz@mleia.com>,
	"Lubomir Rintel" <lkundrak@v3.sk>,
	"Koen Vandeputte" <koen.vandeputte@ncentric.com>,
	"Linux ARM" <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>,
	"Barry Song" <song.bao.hua@hisilicon.com>,
	"Thomas Bogendoerfer" <tsbogend@alpha.franken.de>,
	"Linux Kernel Mailing List" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Jonas Jensen" <jonas.jensen@gmail.com>,
	"Hartley Sweeten" <hsweeten@visionengravers.com>,
	"Mark Salter" <msalter@redhat.com>,
	"Shawn Guo" <shawnguo@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Old platforms: bring out your dead
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 07:21:13 +0100
Message-ID: <20210110062113.GA2912@1wt.eu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAK8P3a1C+EUvyLm3fo8TGOV39hhaxhtDM3cX_QLc-=WCzRksMw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 09, 2021 at 10:52:53PM +0100, Arnd Bergmann wrote:
(... i486 ...)
> As with the other older platforms, the main question to ask is:
> Are there users that are better off running a future LTS kernel on this
> hardware than the v5.10.y version or something older?

I think this is the most important part of the question. Because the
possible use case I've described actually doesn't correspond to a
"prod" machine but to a machine that's powered on every 5 years for
some old data recovery. In such a case users just start with an old
system (possibly the one that's still on them if present), and this
doesn't warrant an up-to-date OS.

Moreover, just as I experienced when maintaining 2.4, there's a point
where support for old stuff starts to break again by lack of testing.
And just because of this, users shouldn't always expect to see their
old machines boot fine on a recent kernel. Sometimes there may even be
difficulties setting up a compatible toolchain.

So actually the question shouldn't be "does anyone want such old
machines to still be supported" but "does anyone *need* them to be
supported". And I suspect that for most of them the response is "no",
it's just a convenience.

Just my two cents,
Willy

  reply index

Thread overview: 121+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-01-08 22:55 Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-08 23:32 ` Steven Rostedt
2021-01-09 22:04   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-08 23:44 ` Thomas Bogendoerfer
2021-01-09  0:16 ` Linus Walleij
2021-01-09 17:32   ` Florian Fainelli
2021-01-09 21:59   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-09  5:56 ` Willy Tarreau
2021-01-09 21:52   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10  6:21     ` Willy Tarreau [this message]
2021-01-10 10:44       ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-11  9:50     ` David Laight
2021-01-13 10:27       ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-13 12:02         ` Linus Walleij
2021-01-13 12:17           ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-13 12:21             ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-15  0:03               ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2021-01-15  0:24                 ` William Breathitt Gray
2021-01-15  8:59                   ` David Laight
2021-01-13 12:30           ` William Breathitt Gray
2021-01-13 12:56             ` William Breathitt Gray
2021-01-13 13:44           ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-02-04 21:01         ` Pavel Machek
2021-02-05  9:13           ` David Laight
2021-02-05  9:29             ` Pavel Machek
2021-01-09 17:34 ` Florian Fainelli
2021-01-09 21:18   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-09 17:43 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-09 21:34   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 20:09     ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-09 20:19 ` Baruch Siach
2021-01-09 21:19   ` Arnd Bergmann
     [not found] ` <67171E13-6786-4B44-A8C2-3302963B055F@gmail.com>
2021-01-09 22:20   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10 18:12     ` Fabian Vogt
2021-01-10 19:20       ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10 21:33       ` Linus Walleij
2021-01-11  0:33         ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-11 12:32           ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 12:36             ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-09 23:12 ` Andrew Lunn
2021-01-10  8:45   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10 16:46     ` Andrew Lunn
2021-01-10 17:27       ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10 19:51         ` Andrew Lunn
2021-01-10 15:51 ` Neil Armstrong
2021-01-10 15:56   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10 17:35 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-10 21:46   ` Sam Ravnborg
2021-01-11  8:05     ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-11 14:55       ` chase rayfield
2021-01-12  0:26         ` Rob Landley
2021-01-12  0:50           ` chase rayfield
2021-01-12 14:37         ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-11 18:09     ` Rob Landley
2021-01-11 15:04   ` Gerhard Pircher
2021-01-12 14:44     ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-12 22:46       ` Linus Walleij
2021-01-13  8:09         ` Rob Landley
2021-01-13  8:21           ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-13 13:25             ` Rob Landley
2021-01-13 12:02           ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-13  8:15         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-13 10:39         ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-14  3:54           ` New platforms: bring out your dead, was " Finn Thain
2021-01-14  9:41         ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-14  9:48           ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-14 21:21           ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-14 22:54             ` Undesirable code, was Re: Old platforms etc Finn Thain
2021-01-14 23:09             ` Old platforms: bring out your dead Max Filippov
2021-01-15  8:31               ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-13  0:12       ` Old platforms never die, was " Finn Thain
2021-01-16  6:54         ` Rob Landley
2021-01-16 23:22           ` Finn Thain
2021-01-13 11:47       ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-11  1:39 ` Daniel Palmer
2021-01-11  9:15   ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-11  9:20     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11  9:26       ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-11  9:36         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11  9:50           ` Greg Ungerer
2021-01-11  9:42     ` Daniel Palmer
2021-01-11 10:13   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11  8:19 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11  8:59   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11  9:16     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11 10:28       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11 10:37         ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11  9:40     ` Thomas Bogendoerfer
2021-01-11 10:34       ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11  8:40 ` efm32 is dead [Was: Old platforms: bring out your dead] Uwe Kleine-König
2021-01-11 11:10 ` Old platforms: bring out your dead Viresh Kumar
2021-01-11 19:59   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 21:15     ` Mattias Wallin
2021-01-11 21:47       ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 13:13 ` Marc Gonzalez
2021-01-11 17:29   ` Måns Rullgård
2021-01-11 21:50     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-12  8:23       ` Marc Gonzalez
2021-01-11 14:22 ` Mark Salter
2021-01-11 15:00   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 14:44 ` Alexander Shiyan
2021-01-11 14:58   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 16:23 ` Sylvain Lemieux
2021-01-11 22:17   ` Alexandre Belloni
2021-01-11 19:58 ` Thomas Petazzoni
2021-01-11 20:10   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 20:25 ` Song Bao Hua (Barry Song)
2021-01-12  8:41   ` Marc Gonzalez
2021-01-13 10:30 ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-13 11:02   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-13 16:14 ` [v2] " Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-13 19:00   ` Krzysztof Hałasa
2021-01-14  8:51     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-15  7:08   ` Wei Xu
2021-01-15  9:26     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-15 11:09       ` Leizhen (ThunderTown)
2021-01-15 12:04         ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-18 10:46           ` Wei Xu
2021-01-13 22:27 ` Richard Z
2021-02-05 13:37 ` Alexander Lobakin
2021-01-12  2:05 tedheadster

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