From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA675C433DB for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2021 19:19:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76E6823B55 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2021 19:19:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1729928AbhANTS7 (ORCPT ); Thu, 14 Jan 2021 14:18:59 -0500 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:42906 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1728377AbhANTS6 (ORCPT ); Thu, 14 Jan 2021 14:18:58 -0500 Received: from mail-qk1-x72d.google.com (mail-qk1-x72d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72d]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40D78C061757 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:18:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x72d.google.com with SMTP id 186so9377686qkj.3 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:18:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=linuxfoundation.org; s=google; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:mail-followup-to:references :mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=C4cTRyNK/dC7x750o61uCU/kZvdErxEIbD//IbSoOqo=; b=IVs5API2ULJAzAHUSiRisWWxGFJGCovscCYfVU18XbamY7/WEof8Gym2BlSktJDXBo AoCoxz2E3yLrkkdsNWUFxDbxQqY4B+CwmC4cfYwn409aRYG7qB1b5Y6WhgV7StJCej62 vfcM/W63g0sDQPGmSKZJ8JsXuiaegR5ZWDedA= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:content-disposition :in-reply-to; bh=C4cTRyNK/dC7x750o61uCU/kZvdErxEIbD//IbSoOqo=; b=UncMkJ/i2kZl6e/xYQjV2B5YN3gqMkCNwZ04LrTHL9EUZ4S1xZd/xcU6fyWRYR3IwO AgaUJNUYxu/GO3x9GmIjX61JrHEgbRZp2Erp/votkxtJ0cOf/udyQbtez6C/ZDTx+3Zi FkG06WbryMi0hFZWC2UFXDCQd+97o+fZTPqDLbW2kCAzQ0IHxirWUYBqOayqTqs48Fva RnRolTkN3Le/raxHO6c+m4gCZIi4QXKF3JeV27WX2CH/OoeAQ6wfzws1nkfzbntNZUi7 F9va9J67PChjgQSIIILqIMkw4q7U9hg2XFjJvuGVAYcToXICpTRoP2JrsehnSlRre0SH U6HA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530nVNdu2sIc//1dsghFg4AgCxW5B0H2p1scOYJLG9OsOFNc0P6h wecgPpkE1w6gGY8t1Q+X1dQrzvl6jVe2h8IM X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzmWOLSsFawh/iOlWprvRJZzLbN1iFPlFN/u1i8PPWL6QuikgUEMHCOEwWCGA62v07RPcSLwA== X-Received: by 2002:a37:e504:: with SMTP id e4mr8561054qkg.191.1610651897173; Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:18:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from chatter.i7.local ([89.36.78.230]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m190sm3530840qkb.42.2021.01.14.11.18.16 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:18:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 14:18:14 -0500 From: Konstantin Ryabitsev To: Jani Nikula Cc: Thorsten Leemhuis , Jonathan Corbet , Randy Dunlap , linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 (RFC)] docs: discourage users from using bugzilla.kernel.org Message-ID: <20210114191814.g3se2svqxtod25xi@chatter.i7.local> Mail-Followup-To: Jani Nikula , Thorsten Leemhuis , Jonathan Corbet , Randy Dunlap , linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org References: <20210110121033.130504-1-linux@leemhuis.info> <20210111194822.4kvl2tx24anyu23k@chatter.i7.local> <877doht7bd.fsf@intel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <877doht7bd.fsf@intel.com> Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 01:17:10PM +0200, Jani Nikula wrote: > >> Well, that said, a lot of stuff sent to the _proper_ mailing lists also never > >> receives a response > > > > Good point. > > There's a school of thought that this is actually a feature. If there's > no attention, the reports on the list will just fade away and be > forgotten. Whereas in bugzilla, someone needs to actively resolve even > the ignored and forgotten bugs. (Or it needs to be automated.) FWIW, it's easy for me to script this, if there is consensus that a bug that hasn't seen any activity for longer than N months should be auto-closed with some apologetic comment like: This bug has aged out and will be auto-closed. Sorry that it didn't work out. If this issue is still present in recent kernel releases, you may need to reach out directly to subsystem maintainers in order to get their attention regarding this problem. Please do not re-open this bug without the above step, as it will simply get auto-closed again in the future. > Attending to a bug database of thousands of open bugs takes a huge > amount of effort, and if the bugs aren't being fixed, a lot of that > effort is just wasted. If a bug doesn't get fixed now (or soon-ish), > what are the chances it'll get fixed months or years down the line? Well, it's *possible* that someone comes across that bug during their research and adds enough additional information to get it fixed. However, this is extremely unlikely and it's better to just open a new bug anyway. > Just musing, has anyone else seen a shift in bug reports from "I'm part > of the community, and I want to help improve this stuff" towards "I'm a > customer and I demand support"? I don't think the kernel community can > really cater to the latter very well, and would be better directed at > distro bug trackers. I haven't seen any specific change like that. One good thing about bugzilla is that people who do file bugs have already overcome significant barriers to sign up and navigate the quaint, decades-old bugzilla interface -- so their bug reports tend to be generally well-written. -K