From: Jakub Kicinski <email@example.com> To: Tobias Waldekranz <firstname.lastname@example.org> Cc: Vadym Kochan <email@example.com>, "David S. Miller" <firstname.lastname@example.org>, email@example.com, Mickey Rachamim <firstname.lastname@example.org>, email@example.com, Vladimir Oltean <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next 5/7] net: marvell: prestera: add LAG support Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 09:48:28 -0800 [thread overview] Message-ID: <email@example.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <firstname.lastname@example.org> On Tue, 09 Feb 2021 12:56:55 +0100 Tobias Waldekranz wrote: > > I ask myself that question pretty much every day. Sadly I have no clear > > answer. > > Thank you for your candid answer, really appreciate it. I do not envy > you one bit, making those decisions must be extremely hard. > > > Silicon is cheap, you can embed a reasonable ARM or Risc-V core in the > > chip for the area and power draw comparable to one high speed serdes > > lane. > > > > The drivers landing in the kernel are increasingly meaningless. My day > > job is working for a hyperscaler. Even though we have one of the most > > capable kernel teams on the planet most of issues with HW we face > > result in "something is wrong with the FW, let's call the vendor". > > Right, and being a hyperscaler probably at least gets you some attention > when you call your vendor. My day job is working for a nanoscaler, so my > experience is that we must be prepared to solve all issues in-house; if > we get any help from the vendor that is just a bonus. > > > And even when I say "drivers landing" it is an overstatement. > > If you look at high speed anything these days the drivers cover > > multiple generations of hardware, seems like ~5 years ago most > > NIC vendors reached sufficient FW saturation to cover up differences > > between HW generations. > > > > At the same time some FW is necessary. Certain chip functions, are > > best driven by a micro-controller running a tight control loop. > > I agree. But I still do not understand why vendors cling to the source > of these like it was their wallet. That is the beauty of selling > silicon; you can fully leverage OSS and still have a very straight > forward business model. Vendors want to be able to "add value", lock users in and sell support. Users adding features themselves hurts their bottom line. Take a look at income breakdown for publicly traded companies. There were also rumors recently about certain huge silicon vendor revoking the SDK license from a NOS company after that company got bought. Business people make rational choices, trust me. It's on us to make rational choices in the interest of the community (incl. our users). > > The complexity of FW is a spectrum, from basic to Qualcomm. > > The problem is there is no way for us to know what FW is hiding > > by just looking at the driver. > > > > Where do we draw the line? > > Yeah it is a very hard problem. In this particular case though, the > vendor explicitly said that what they have done is compiled their > existing SDK to run on the ASIC: > > https://lore.kernel.org/netdev/BN6PR18MB1587EB225C6B80BF35A44EBFBA5A0@BN6PR18MB1587.namprd18.prod.outlook.com > > So there is no reason that it could not be done as a proper driver. I guess you meant "no _technical_ reason" ;) > > Personally I'd really like to see us pushing back stronger. > > Hear, hear!
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-02-09 18:49 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 31+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2021-02-03 16:54 [PATCH net-next 0/7] Marvell Prestera Switchdev misc updates Vadym Kochan 2021-02-03 16:54 ` [PATCH net-next 1/7] net: marvell: prestera: bump supported firmware version to 2.5 Vadym Kochan 2021-02-03 16:54 ` [PATCH net-next 2/7] net: marvell: prestera: disable events interrupt while handling Vadym Kochan 2021-02-05 5:10 ` Jakub Kicinski 2021-02-05 11:28 ` Vadym Kochan 2021-02-03 16:54 ` [PATCH net-next 3/7] net: marvell: prestera: add support for AC3X 98DX3265 device Vadym Kochan 2021-02-03 16:54 ` [PATCH net-next 4/7] net: marvell: prestera: move netdev topology validation to prestera_main Vadym Kochan 2021-02-05 14:09 ` Vladimir Oltean 2021-02-03 16:54 ` [PATCH net-next 5/7] net: marvell: prestera: add LAG support Vadym Kochan 2021-02-05 5:16 ` Jakub Kicinski 2021-02-08 19:54 ` Tobias Waldekranz 2021-02-08 21:05 ` Jakub Kicinski 2021-02-08 22:30 ` Andrew Lunn 2021-02-09 12:37 ` Tobias Waldekranz 2021-02-09 11:56 ` Tobias Waldekranz 2021-02-09 17:48 ` Jakub Kicinski [this message] 2021-02-09 13:58 ` Andrew Lunn 2021-02-09 17:35 ` Jakub Kicinski 2021-02-09 20:31 ` [EXT] " Mickey Rachamim 2021-02-09 21:34 ` Tobias Waldekranz 2021-02-10 10:41 ` Mickey Rachamim 2021-02-10 21:44 ` Tobias Waldekranz 2021-02-10 0:28 ` Andrew Lunn 2021-02-10 10:42 ` Mickey Rachamim 2021-02-10 19:25 ` Jakub Kicinski 2021-02-10 20:52 ` Taras Chornyi 2021-02-05 15:24 ` Vladimir Oltean 2021-02-03 16:54 ` [PATCH net-next 6/7] net: marvell: prestera: align flood setting according to latest firmware version Vadym Kochan 2021-02-03 16:54 ` [PATCH net-next 7/7] net: marvell: prestera: fix port event handling on init Vadym Kochan 2021-02-05 5:19 ` Jakub Kicinski 2021-02-05 12:31 ` Vadym Kochan
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