From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6AD7C47095 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2021 18:52:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 895866108D for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2021 18:52:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S231271AbhFGSx4 (ORCPT ); Mon, 7 Jun 2021 14:53:56 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:55308 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S230522AbhFGSxx (ORCPT ); Mon, 7 Jun 2021 14:53:53 -0400 Received: from metis.ext.pengutronix.de (metis.ext.pengutronix.de [IPv6:2001:67c:670:201:290:27ff:fe1d:cc33]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A1DF4C061766 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2021 11:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ptx.hi.pengutronix.de ([2001:67c:670:100:1d::c0]) by metis.ext.pengutronix.de with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lqKLv-0005zF-F8; Mon, 07 Jun 2021 20:51:59 +0200 Received: from ukl by ptx.hi.pengutronix.de with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lqKLu-0002M5-WC; Mon, 07 Jun 2021 20:51:59 +0200 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2021 20:51:58 +0200 From: Uwe =?utf-8?Q?Kleine-K=C3=B6nig?= To: Thierry Reding Cc: Sven Van Asbroeck , Clemens Gruber , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kernel@pengutronix.de, linux-pwm@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/4] pwm: core: Support new usage_power setting in PWM state Message-ID: <20210607185158.jweahkoa3cxwl2nh@pengutronix.de> References: <20210507131845.37605-1-clemens.gruber@pqgruber.com> <20210507150317.bnluhqrqepde4xjm@pengutronix.de> <20210507231831.zmvyspcq7xhm25y4@pengutronix.de> <20210607060827.vxdihsfqtw3otyco@pengutronix.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="mghuouuljigxlq7q" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 2001:67c:670:100:1d::c0 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: ukl@pengutronix.de X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on metis.ext.pengutronix.de); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-PTX-Original-Recipient: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org --mghuouuljigxlq7q Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Thierry, On Mon, Jun 07, 2021 at 04:40:14PM +0200, Thierry Reding wrote: > On Mon, Jun 07, 2021 at 08:08:27AM +0200, Uwe Kleine-K=F6nig wrote: > > Hello Thierry, > >=20 > > On Fri, Jun 04, 2021 at 11:49:37AM +0200, Thierry Reding wrote: > > > In the interest of making forward progress, I've applied this series. > >=20 > > I proposed a different approach that in contrast to usage_power: > >=20 > > - is well defined > > (so driver authors and consumers know what to provide or expect resp= =2E); > > - has good name people understand without reading documentation; > > - fully covers the problem Clemens want to address; > > - fully covers what the only implementing lowlevel driver does; and > > - is easy to implement based on the patches in this series > >=20 > > This is not what I call "forward progress". I take it personal that > > after I pointed out technical shortcomings with this patch set and even > > suggested a better concept, you didn't even made the effort to argue > > but instead simply went on applying the patches. >=20 > Forward progress doesn't always mean that everybody gets their way. Do you agree that the usage power flag introduced here isn't well defined? If you think it is, tell me, what is the maximal and minimal period a consumer has to expect when .period =3D 10000 ns is requested. Assume you have a driver (think pwm-gpio) where a longer period means more power savings. What is "the reasonable" period that the driver should configure? Do you agree that in contrast to usage-power allow-phase-shift is well defined? Did you ask people in your bubble what they expect from a usage power flag for a PWM without first explaining what it does? Did you try to ask an internet search engine what it suggests when searching for "PWM usage power"? Do you agree that allow-phase-shift is good enough to solve Clemens' problem? Either you give completely other answers than I do or you don't consider it bad that consumers don't know what they can expect and that names are unintuitive. My problem is not that in the end a solution is picked that wasn't my favourite. My problem is that I have the impression my arguments were not considered but simply ignored. > And this is nothing personal, so please don't take it that way. If this isn't personal (which is great) then it's a decision that is (at least for me) obviously wrong and ignoring the good arguments against this choice without any relevant advantages compared to my suggested solution. I have problems to not take this personal. > I don't see where you pointed out technical shortcomings with this > patch, you merely pointed out that you don't like this solution and that > there might be a better way to implement it by expanding on the concepts > introduced in this patch series. Either you didn't read my mail at all, or you have a different idea about what you consider a relevant argument. (Well, or you don't care that your choice is bad. I hope this is only a theoretical possibility.) Being well defined and having an intuitive name belong into this "relevant" category in my book. =20 Best regards Uwe --=20 Pengutronix e.K. | Uwe Kleine-K=F6nig | Industrial Linux Solutions | https://www.pengutronix.de/ | --mghuouuljigxlq7q Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAABCgAdFiEEfnIqFpAYrP8+dKQLwfwUeK3K7AkFAmC+assACgkQwfwUeK3K 7AkKawf+LgHvZxkGwuwIw1V8lZKV6LqHBQteMo2jDtkuYpJzFHnfxd9//MeDExD7 2Vs5CRRs4s18ase22C2v+cFUqG1J4NST4+/7jrZyaADOsNR6ex6QQi/DXXyA/jPh JZ1r1nk8gGGl5NZV4CX7gIE1TAhmBh8co/IN9hbG2fAOTYPHHgFDTtDFW+HwW14G pWX8k137a4JdEyYgKBxWMsYoTg8uALw7Lb1L4nlAxi0+IkDJpNk0Ox3OFXhOZcGP Xvnen1+C+ZjFd4zpjeDooVP3FVQerHSrWifXkeLru7x4P8shIaaKYkn+piT3d5Vq Q1aDO2t5vLTJj53gPHU+Q7M1kiwOng== =TlBH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --mghuouuljigxlq7q--