From: Kees Cook <email@example.com> To: "Eric W. Biederman" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Cc: Kyle Huey <email@example.com>, Andrea Righi <firstname.lastname@example.org>, Shuah Khan <email@example.com>, Alexei Starovoitov <firstname.lastname@example.org>, Andy Lutomirski <email@example.com>, Will Drewry <firstname.lastname@example.org>, "open list:KERNEL SELFTEST FRAMEWORK" <email@example.com>, firstname.lastname@example.org, open list <email@example.com>, firstname.lastname@example.org, Linus Torvalds <email@example.com>, Robert O'Callahan <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: Re: [REGRESSION] 5.16rc1: SA_IMMUTABLE breaks debuggers Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 13:54:14 -0800 [thread overview] Message-ID: <202111171341.41053845C3@keescook> (raw) In-Reply-To: <email@example.com> On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 03:04:31PM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: > Kyle Huey <firstname.lastname@example.org> writes: > > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 11:05 AM Kyle Huey <email@example.com> wrote: > >> > >> On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 10:51 AM Kees Cook <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: > >> > > >> > On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 10:47:13AM -0800, Kyle Huey wrote: > >> > > rr, a userspace record and replay debugger, is completely broken on > >> > > 5.16rc1. I bisected this to 00b06da29cf9dc633cdba87acd3f57f4df3fd5c7. > >> > > > >> > > That patch makes two changes, it blocks sigaction from changing signal > >> > > handlers once the kernel has decided to force the program to take a > >> > > signal and it also stops notifying ptracers of the signal in the same > >> > > circumstances. The latter behavior is just wrong. There's no reason > >> > > that ptrace should not be able to observe and even change > >> > > (non-SIGKILL) forced signals. It should be reverted. > >> > > > >> > > This behavior change is also observable in gdb. If you take a program > >> > > that sets SIGSYS to SIG_IGN and then raises a SIGSYS via > >> > > SECCOMP_RET_TRAP and run it under gdb on a good kernel gdb will stop > >> > > when the SIGSYS is raised, let you inspect program state, etc. After > >> > > the SA_IMMUTABLE change gdb won't stop until the program has already > >> > > died of SIGSYS. > >> > > >> > Ah, hm, this was trying to fix the case where a program trips > >> > SECCOMP_RET_KILL (which is a "fatal SIGSYS"), and had been unobservable > >> > before. I guess the fix was too broad... > >> > >> Perhaps I don't understand precisely what you mean by this, but gdb's > >> behavior for a program that is SECCOMP_RET_KILLed was not changed by > >> this patch (the SIGSYS is not observed until after program exit before > >> or after this change). The SA_IMMUTABLE change was to deal with failures seen in the seccomp test suite after the recent fatal signal refactoring. Mainly that a process that should have effectively performed do_exit() was suddenly visible to the tracer. > > Ah, maybe that behavior changed in 5.15 (my "before" here is a 5.14 > > kernel). I would argue that the debugger seeing the SIGSYS for > > SECCOMP_RET_KILL is desirable though ... > > This is definitely worth discussing, and probably in need of fixing (aka > something in rr seems to have broken). > > We definitely need protection against the race with sigaction. > > The fundamental question becomes does it make sense and is it safe > to allow a debugger to stop at, and possibly change these signals. I have no problem with a debugger getting notified about a fatal (SECCOMP_RET_KILL*-originated) SIGSYS. But whatever happens, the kernel needs to make sure the process does not continue. (i.e. signal can't be changed/removed/etc.) > Stopping at something SA_IMMUTABLE as long as the signal is allowed to > continue and kill the process when PTRACE_CONT happens seems harmless. > > Allowing the debugger to change the signal, or change it's handling > I don't know. Right -- I'm fine with a visibility change (the seccomp test suite is just checking for various expected state machine changes across the various signal/death cases: as long as it _dies_, that's what we want. If a extra notification appears before it dies, that's okay, it just needs the test suite to change). > [...] > Kees I am back to asking the question I had before I figured out > SA_IMMUTABLE. Are there security concerns with debuggers intercepting > SECCOMP_RET_KILL. I see no problem with allowing a tracer to observe the signal, but the signalled process must have no way to continue running. If we end up in such a state, then a seccomp process with access to clone() and ptrace() can escape the seccomp sandbox. This is why seccomp had been using the big do_exit() hammer -- I really want to absolutely never have a bug manifest with a bypassed SECCOMP_RET_KILL: having a completely unavoidable "dying" state is needed. -- Kees Cook
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-11-17 21:54 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 32+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2021-11-17 18:47 Kyle Huey 2021-11-17 18:51 ` Kees Cook 2021-11-17 19:05 ` Kyle Huey 2021-11-17 19:09 ` Kyle Huey 2021-11-17 21:04 ` Eric W. Biederman 2021-11-17 21:54 ` Kees Cook [this message] 2021-11-17 23:24 ` Linus Torvalds 2021-11-18 0:05 ` Kees Cook 2021-11-18 0:15 ` Linus Torvalds 2021-11-18 0:37 ` Kyle Huey 2021-11-18 1:11 ` Linus Torvalds 2021-11-18 1:20 ` Kyle Huey 2021-11-18 1:32 ` Kees Cook 2021-11-18 16:10 ` Eric W. Biederman 2021-11-19 16:07 ` Kyle Huey 2021-11-19 16:35 ` Kees Cook 2021-11-19 16:58 ` Kyle Huey 2021-11-18 21:58 ` [PATCH 0/2] SA_IMMUTABLE fixes Eric W. Biederman 2021-11-18 22:04 ` [PATCH 1/2] signal: Don't always set SA_IMMUTABLE for forced signals Eric W. Biederman 2021-11-18 23:52 ` Kees Cook 2021-11-18 23:54 ` Kees Cook 2021-11-19 15:08 ` Eric W. Biederman 2021-11-19 1:13 ` Kyle Huey 2021-11-19 15:03 ` Eric W. Biederman 2021-11-18 22:05 ` [PATCH 2/2] signal: Replace force_fatal_sig with force_exit_sig when in doubt Eric W. Biederman 2021-11-18 23:53 ` Kees Cook 2021-11-19 1:12 ` [PATCH 0/2] SA_IMMUTABLE fixes Kyle Huey 2021-11-19 15:41 ` [GIT PULL] SA_IMMUTABLE fixes for v5.16-rc2 Eric W. Biederman 2021-11-19 19:46 ` pr-tracker-bot 2021-11-17 22:29 ` [REGRESSION] 5.16rc1: SA_IMMUTABLE breaks debuggers Kyle Huey 2021-11-18 5:43 ` Thorsten Leemhuis 2021-11-20 6:13 ` Thorsten Leemhuis
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