Novell Attacks Linux

Novell Attacks Linux

[Jeff V. Merkey]

LKML,

TRG got a response from Novell related to the NetWare File System
on Linux.  From the tone of the letter, Novell is declaring war 
on Linux or anyone who is using NWFS.  This letter is posted 
to our website and can be accessed at www.timpanogas.org if 
any NWFS users want to know what Novell's views are and public 
statements.  They claim it's "stolen property".

Jeff Merkey
TRG

Re: Novell Attacks Linux

[Bruce Ferrell]

Jeff,

In the letter you referenced in your posting to the LKML you've made the
claim that Novell is "declaring war on Linux".

It seems, after reading the letter that was scanned and posted on the
timpanogas web site, that they've simply said no to some request that
made of them. And further told you they think they can win should you
pursue legal action.

I admit, I do have a soft spot for Netware as it was my "baby" network
but I'm not an employee of Novell or major fan today.  It's just too
expensive.  Novell just doesn't seem to be able to adapt to current
conditions today.  Too bad as their server is much better than anything
coming out of Redmond.

All of that not withstanding, I don't think you're doing yourself or us
any good by making what seem to be exagerated claims.

Just my 2 cents worth.

\x18

"Jeff V. Merkey" wrote:
> 
> LKML,
> 
> TRG got a response from Novell related to the NetWare File System
> on Linux.  From the tone of the letter, Novell is declaring war
> on Linux or anyone who is using NWFS.  This letter is posted
> to our website and can be accessed at www.timpanogas.org if
> any NWFS users want to know what Novell's views are and public
> statements.  They claim it's "stolen property".
> 
> Jeff Merkey
> TRG
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
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Re: Novell Attacks Linux

[Jeff V. Merkey]

On Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 01:25:09PM -0700, Bruce Ferrell wrote:

Thanks for the advice, but I don't think I share your views.

My 2 cents worth.

Jeff


> Jeff,
> 
> In the letter you referenced in your posting to the LKML you've made the
> claim that Novell is "declaring war on Linux".
> 
> It seems, after reading the letter that was scanned and posted on the
> timpanogas web site, that they've simply said no to some request that
> made of them. And further told you they think they can win should you
> pursue legal action.
> 
> I admit, I do have a soft spot for Netware as it was my "baby" network
> but I'm not an employee of Novell or major fan today.  It's just too
> expensive.  Novell just doesn't seem to be able to adapt to current
> conditions today.  Too bad as their server is much better than anything
> coming out of Redmond.
> 
> All of that not withstanding, I don't think you're doing yourself or us
> any good by making what seem to be exagerated claims.
> 
> Just my 2 cents worth.
> 
> \x18
> 
> "Jeff V. Merkey" wrote:
> > 
> > LKML,
> > 
> > TRG got a response from Novell related to the NetWare File System
> > on Linux.  From the tone of the letter, Novell is declaring war
> > on Linux or anyone who is using NWFS.  This letter is posted
> > to our website and can be accessed at www.timpanogas.org if
> > any NWFS users want to know what Novell's views are and public
> > statements.  They claim it's "stolen property".
> > 
> > Jeff Merkey
> > TRG
> > 
> > -
> > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> > More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> > Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/

Re: Novell Attacks Linux

[Henning P. Schmiedehausen]

"Jeff V. Merkey" <jmerkey@vger.timpanogas.org> writes:

>On Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 01:25:09PM -0700, Bruce Ferrell wrote:

>Thanks for the advice, but I don't think I share your views.

And where is page one of this letter? 

IMHO you're trying to do politics (again!) on LKLM with just
half-assed information. You're a lawyer, aren't you?

	Regards
		Henning

-- 
Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen       -- Geschaeftsfuehrer
INTERMETA - Gesellschaft fuer Mehrwertdienste mbH     hps@intermeta.de

Am Schwabachgrund 22  Fon.: 09131 / 50654-0   info@intermeta.de
D-91054 Buckenhof     Fax.: 09131 / 50654-20   

Re: Novell Attacks Linux

[Jeff V. Merkey]

On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 08:02:56AM +0000, Henning P. Schmiedehausen wrote:
> "Jeff V. Merkey" <jmerkey@vger.timpanogas.org> writes:
> 
> >On Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 01:25:09PM -0700, Bruce Ferrell wrote:
> 
> >Thanks for the advice, but I don't think I share your views.
> 
> And where is page one of this letter? 
> 
> IMHO you're trying to do politics (again!) on LKLM with just
> half-assed information. You're a lawyer, aren't you?


People have downloaded NWFS from LKML.  If Novell is making claims
it's stolen, in the US I have an obligation to inform these people.
You live in Germany, so I don't expect you to understand our laws.
Under our law, Novell can go after any of these people, so they 
need to be warned.

Jeff


> 
> 	Regards
> 		Henning
> 
> -- 
> Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen       -- Geschaeftsfuehrer
> INTERMETA - Gesellschaft fuer Mehrwertdienste mbH     hps@intermeta.de
> 
> Am Schwabachgrund 22  Fon.: 09131 / 50654-0   info@intermeta.de
> D-91054 Buckenhof     Fax.: 09131 / 50654-20   
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
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> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/

Re: Novell Attacks Linux

[Henning P. Schmiedehausen]

"Jeff V. Merkey" <jmerkey@vger.timpanogas.org> writes:

>People have downloaded NWFS from LKML.  If Novell is making claims
>it's stolen, in the US I have an obligation to inform these people.
>You live in Germany, so I don't expect you to understand our laws.
>Under our law, Novell can go after any of these people, so they 
>need to be warned.

According to my law understanding, people downloaded source code from
a public ftp server on the Internet according to a distribution and
licensing agreement ("GPL") that was issued by the "vendor" (distributor)
called TRG.

If you released code that was "stolen" to the public under a license
that you could not (or were not allowed to) issue, they will go after
you. Not after your customers.

In Germany, there is something called "nach bestem Wissen und
Gewissen" (roughly translated "in best intention"). This would apply
here (under german law of course).

Novell can (in best) demand that everyone who downloaded that code
"cease and desist" to use it. They can hold _you_ as the distributor
responsible for the damage to their business. And that's the reason
why you make politics here. You want to turn "Novell attacks TRG" into
"Novell attacks Linux" because you hope of a possible "fallout" on
Novell. That's what I call "make politics on LKM".

But I know, you're in the country where people marry with 14, may
drive cars with 16, carry guns with 19 but have to wait for being 21
to drink alcohol. 

	Regards
		Henning

-- 
Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen       -- Geschaeftsfuehrer
INTERMETA - Gesellschaft fuer Mehrwertdienste mbH     hps@intermeta.de

Am Schwabachgrund 22  Fon.: 09131 / 50654-0   info@intermeta.de
D-91054 Buckenhof     Fax.: 09131 / 50654-20   

Re: Novell Attacks Linux

[Paul Fulghum]

> But I know, you're in the country where people marry with 14, may
> drive cars with 16, carry guns with 19 but have to wait for being 21
> to drink alcohol. 

Booze, guns, cars, and underage girls?
Break out the banjos, we're going to have a ho-down.

Paul Fulghum, paulkf@microgate.com
Microgate Corporation, www.microgate.com

Re: Novell Attacks Linux

[Paul G. Allen]

"Henning P. Schmiedehausen" wrote:
> 
> "Jeff V. Merkey" <jmerkey@vger.timpanogas.org> writes:
> 
> >People have downloaded NWFS from LKML.  If Novell is making claims
> >it's stolen, in the US I have an obligation to inform these people.
> >You live in Germany, so I don't expect you to understand our laws.
> >Under our law, Novell can go after any of these people, so they
> >need to be warned.
> 
> According to my law understanding, people downloaded source code from
> a public ftp server on the Internet according to a distribution and
> licensing agreement ("GPL") that was issued by the "vendor" (distributor)
> called TRG.
> 
> If you released code that was "stolen" to the public under a license
> that you could not (or were not allowed to) issue, they will go after
> you. Not after your customers.
> 
> In Germany, there is something called "nach bestem Wissen und
> Gewissen" (roughly translated "in best intention"). This would apply
> here (under german law of course).
> 

We have the same sort of thing here. Technically, anyone who D/L the software believing that it was perfectly legal to do so and having no intent to harm Novell
or steal their proprietary information, could not be prosecuted. They could be ordered to stop using it and get rid of (destroy) all copies, and thereafter if
they were caught with it they could be prosecuted. But, in actuality - and this stands for any country with any laws - Novell can do what ever they want to
those who have the software unless the courts decide not to let them.

> 
> But I know, you're in the country where people marry with 14, may
> drive cars with 16, carry guns with 19 but have to wait for being 21
> to drink alcohol.
> 

As an American, I have to say "Stupid isn't it!"

I think people shouldn't marry until 40! (J/K, I have two young daughters ;)

PGA

-- 
Paul G. Allen
UNIX Admin II/Programmer
Akamai Technologies, Inc.
www.akamai.com
Work: (858)909-3630
Cell: (858)395-5043

Re: Novell Attacks Linux

[Jim Roland]

If it's indeed "stolen", Novell could seek an injunction to have the
download removed.  They would also have to have NCP removed from 
the kernel.  Neither of which they have done.  BTW, your letter
posting on your website link some time ago, did not work (404 error).



On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 08:02:56AM +0000, Henning P. Schmiedehausen wrote:
> > "Jeff V. Merkey" <jmerkey@vger.timpanogas.org> writes:
> > 
> > >On Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 01:25:09PM -0700, Bruce Ferrell wrote:
> > 
> > >Thanks for the advice, but I don't think I share your views.
> > 
> > And where is page one of this letter? 
> > 
> > IMHO you're trying to do politics (again!) on LKLM with just
> > half-assed information. You're a lawyer, aren't you?
> 
> 
> People have downloaded NWFS from LKML.  If Novell is making claims
> it's stolen, in the US I have an obligation to inform these people.
> You live in Germany, so I don't expect you to understand our laws.
> Under our law, Novell can go after any of these people, so they 
> need to be warned.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> > 
> > 	Regards
> > 		Henning
> > 
> > -- 
> > Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen       -- Geschaeftsfuehrer
> > INTERMETA - Gesellschaft fuer Mehrwertdienste mbH     hps@intermeta.de
> > 
> > Am Schwabachgrund 22  Fon.: 09131 / 50654-0   info@intermeta.de
> > D-91054 Buckenhof     Fax.: 09131 / 50654-20   
> > -
> > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> > More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> > Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
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> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
> 

Re: Novell Attacks Linux

[Jim Roland]

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Paul Fulghum wrote:

> > But I know, you're in the country where people marry with 14, may
> > drive cars with 16, carry guns with 19 but have to wait for being 21
> > to drink alcohol. 
> 
> Booze, guns, cars, and underage girls?
> Break out the banjos, we're going to have a ho-down.

Hmmm...I seemed to have missed all that the movie Deliverance had for
us.  Thank God.

> 
> Paul Fulghum, paulkf@microgate.com
> Microgate Corporation, www.microgate.com
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
> 

Re: Novell Attacks Linux

[Erik Andersen]

On Wed Aug 29, 2001 at 09:03:56PM -0700, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
>
> state, depending on the circumstances.  You are allowed to have multiple
> wives, and the State will support all of them for you with child support
> so long as they are older than 16.  If you are a Mormon, you get to tell 
> these wives they will not be allowed in heaven unless they do whatever
> you tell them.  

Thank you for your ideas.  But lets be clear here, they are _your_ ideas
and have as little to do with fact as your legal problems with Novell have 
to do with Linux.

Quoting from the Utah State Consitution:
    http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/const/htm/co_17003.htm

    "An Act to punish polygamy and other kindred offenses," approved February
    4th, A.D. 1892, in so far as the same defines and imposes penalties for
    polygamy, is hereby declared to be in force in the State of Utah. 

There was even a very recent case where a polygamist was charged and convicted.
I suggest you take a look:
    http://www.cnn.com/2001/LAW/05/19/utah.polygamy/

 -Erik

--
Erik B. Andersen   email:  andersee@debian.org
--This message was written using 73% post-consumer electrons--

Re: Novell Attacks Linux

[Jeff V. Merkey]

On Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 05:05:12PM -0500, Jim Roland wrote:
> If it's indeed "stolen", Novell could seek an injunction to have the
> download removed.  They would also have to have NCP removed from 
> the kernel.  Neither of which they have done.  BTW, your letter
> posting on your website link some time ago, did not work (404 error).
> 

Novell's lawyers promptly called Andy with more threats, and he ordered
me to take it down from the site.  At least the word got out before I had 
to take it down.  They were pretty riled from what I hear.

Jeff

Re: Novell Attacks Linux

[Jeff V. Merkey]

> 
> But I know, you're in the country where people marry with 14, may
> drive cars with 16, carry guns with 19 but have to wait for being 21
> to drink alcohol. 
> 

It's also a class A misdameanor to buy tobacco is you are under a certain
age, which is a serious penalty.  A copy of penthouse is a felony in this 
state, depending on the circumstances.  You are allowed to have multiple
wives, and the State will support all of them for you with child support
so long as they are older than 16.  If you are a Mormon, you get to tell 
these wives they will not be allowed in heaven unless they do whatever
you tell them.  

I'm not mormon, I am an American Indian.  I also run the Utah Native 
American Church (www.utah-nac.org) in addition to all the other businesses
and projects I am involved in.  I have not eaten peyote for over 20 
years, FYI, but there are Indians in my church who do.  I just do simple 
stuff like prayer pipe with sacred tobacco.   Please don't clump me into
the Mormon polygamist groupies.  I do have several polygamous families 
living on my street, however, and they seem nice.  

Each wife gets her own house, and the husband visits each one.  You have
to be very rich to be able to practice polygamy in this State, BTW.

:-)

Jeff

Re: Novell Attacks Linux

[Trever L. Adams]

Jeff V. Merkey wrote:

>>But I know, you're in the country where people marry with 14, may
>>drive cars with 16, carry guns with 19 but have to wait for being 21
>>to drink alcohol. 
>>
>>
> 
> It's also a class A misdameanor to buy tobacco is you are under a certain
> age, which is a serious penalty.  A copy of penthouse is a felony in this 
> state, depending on the circumstances.  You are allowed to have multiple


The penthouse may thing may be the truth.  Don't really know, don't 
really care.


> wives, and the State will support all of them for you with child support
> so long as they are older than 16.  If you are a Mormon, you get to tell 
> these wives they will not be allowed in heaven unless they do whatever
> you tell them.  

Actually, it is very illegal to have multiple wives in Utah.  The US Gov 
ernment made Utah outlaw it (I believe in the Utah constitution) in 
order for Utah to gain state-hood.  I do not know why Utah doesn't 
prosecute more of the polygamists, but they have been prosecuting some. 
  Many on child abuse, incest, and other charges as well.  I was once 
told they don't prosecute more because it was hard to make the charge of 
polygamy stick if it was the only charge.  As for the Mormons, they 
excommunicate (kick out) those who are caught practicing.

Please, refer to the message from Eric Andersen for the section of the 
Utah Constitution referring to polygamy. Refer to LDS Official 
Declaration #1 (might be available on lds.org) for the 'Mormons' stance 
on polygamy.

And why do messages that have nothing to do with linux or related 
matters appear on LKM?

Trever Adams

Re: Novell Attacks Linux

[Mike Galbraith]

zzz...

> And why do messages that have nothing to do with linux or related
> matters appear on LKM?

Yeah!  And why do people keep replying to....  oops

	pitty-patter pitty-patter :-)

	-Mike

Re: Novell Attacks Linux

[Jeff V. Merkey]

On Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 09:26:40PM -0600, Erik Andersen wrote:
> 
>     "An Act to punish polygamy and other kindred offenses," approved February
>     4th, A.D. 1892, in so far as the same defines and imposes penalties for
>     polygamy, is hereby declared to be in force in the State of Utah. 
> 

Odd, I drive by huge complexes on the road from Spanish Fork to Manti,
and there's huge colonies of them down there on both sides of the roads.
I'll give you directions if you like.

:-)

Jeff

Re: Novell Attacks Linux

[Jeff V. Merkey]

> Actually, it is very illegal to have multiple wives in Utah.  The US Gov 
> ernment made Utah outlaw it (I believe in the Utah constitution) in 
> order for Utah to gain state-hood.  I do not know why Utah doesn't 
> prosecute more of the polygamists, but they have been prosecuting some. 
>   Many on child abuse, incest, and other charges as well.  I was once 
> told they don't prosecute more because it was hard to make the charge of 
> polygamy stick if it was the only charge.  As for the Mormons, they 
> excommunicate (kick out) those who are caught practicing.
> 

And then they join the Polygamist Mormon Church down in Manti, an LDS
spin-off.   The State government only gets involved when the girls are 
under 16, and forced to marry these old men.  Hey, Trevor, long time 
no see.  Haven't seen you around for a while.  How many wives do you 
have, BTW?  I only have one.  I can't imagime trying to deal with more
than one at a time.

:-)

Jeff

Re: Novell Attacks Linux

[Jeff V. Merkey]

On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 12:49:19AM +0000, Petr Vandrovec wrote:
> On 29 Aug 01 at 17:05, Jim Roland wrote:
> > If it's indeed "stolen", Novell could seek an injunction to have the
> > download removed.  They would also have to have NCP removed from 
> > the kernel.  Neither of which they have done.  BTW, your letter
> 
> NCP is completely different thing from NWFS. NCP documentation
> is freely downloadable from Novell site, and nobody from Novell
> never ever told me that there is something wrong with ncpfs, although
> they also do not support it. So we are on the safe side of the river AFAIK.
>                                                 Best regards,
>                                                     Petr Vandrovec
>                                                     vandrove@vc.cvut.cz


Petr's OK.  I have heard they really like and respect him.  I don't think
he will have any problems with them.  They like him and his stuff.  Craig
Miller, EVP of NetWare, has spoken highly of him to me and his work.

Jeff


>                                                     
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Re: Novell Attacks Linux

[Petr Vandrovec]

On 29 Aug 01 at 17:05, Jim Roland wrote:
> If it's indeed "stolen", Novell could seek an injunction to have the
> download removed.  They would also have to have NCP removed from 
> the kernel.  Neither of which they have done.  BTW, your letter

NCP is completely different thing from NWFS. NCP documentation
is freely downloadable from Novell site, and nobody from Novell
never ever told me that there is something wrong with ncpfs, although
they also do not support it. So we are on the safe side of the river AFAIK.
                                                Best regards,
                                                    Petr Vandrovec
                                                    vandrove@vc.cvut.cz