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From: David Laight <David.Laight@ACULAB.COM>
To: 'Xie He' <>
Cc: "David S. Miller" <>,
	Jakub Kicinski <>,
	"" <>,
	"" <>,
	"" <>,
	"Martin Schiller" <>
Subject: RE: [PATCH net-next] net: x25: Remove unimplemented X.25-over-LLC code stubs
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 09:14:36 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <>

From: Xie He
> Sent: 09 December 2020 22:54
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 1:21 PM David Laight <> wrote:
> >
> > I always wondered about running Class 2 transport directly over LLC2
> > (rather than Class 4 over LLC1).
> > But the only LLC2 user was netbios - and microsoft's LLC2 was broken.
> > Not to mention the window probing needed to handle systems that
> > said they supported a window of (IIRC) 15 but would discard the
> > 5th back to back frame.
> To me, LLC1 and LLC2 are to Ethernet what UDP and TCP are to IP
> networks. I think we can use LLC1 and LLC2 wherever UDP and TCP can be
> used, as long as we are in the same LAN and are willing to use MAC
> addresses as the addresses.

Except that you don't have any where near enough 'ports' so you need
something to demultiplex messages to different applications.

We (ICL) always ran class 4 transport (which does error recovery)
directly over LLC1 using MAC address (a NUL byte for the network layer).
This requires a bridged network and globally unique MAC addresses.
Sending out an LLC reflect packet to the broadcast MAC address used to
generate a couple of thousand responses (many would get discarded
because the bridges got overloaded).

> X.25 layer 3 certainly can also run over LLC2.

You don't need X.25 layer 3.
X.25 layer 2 does error recovery over a point-to-point link.
X.25 layer 3 does switching between machines.
Class 2 transport does multiplexing over a reliable lower layer.
So you normally need all three.

However LLC2 gives you a reliable connection between two machines
(selected by MAC address).
So you should be able to run Class 2 transport (well one of its
4 variants!) directly over LL2.

The advantage over Class 4 transport over LLC1 is that there is
only one set of retransmit buffers (etc) regardless of the number
of connections.

But this is all 30 year old history...


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  reply	other threads:[~2020-12-10  9:17 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 7+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-12-09  3:33 [PATCH net-next] net: x25: Remove unimplemented X.25-over-LLC code stubs Xie He
2020-12-09 21:21 ` David Laight
2020-12-09 22:53   ` Xie He
2020-12-10  9:14     ` David Laight [this message]
2020-12-10 10:17       ` Xie He
2020-12-10 22:34         ` David Laight
2020-12-13  1:20 ` patchwork-bot+netdevbpf

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