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From: Con Kolivas <kernel@kolivas.org>
To: Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de>
Cc: Arjan van de Ven <arjanv@redhat.com>,
	Paul Davis <paul@linuxaudiosystems.com>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	Lee Revell <rlrevell@joe-job.com>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>,
	Chris Wright <chrisw@osdl.org>,
	Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>, "Jack O'Quin" <joq@io.com>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@osdl.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] [request for inclusion] Realtime LSM
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 16:36:57 +1100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <41DF7179.20401@kolivas.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <s5hbrc1w6rq.wl@alsa2.suse.de>

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1256 bytes --]

Takashi Iwai wrote:
> At Fri, 7 Jan 2005 17:03:51 +0100,
> Arjan van de Ven wrote:
>>something like a soft realtime flag that acts as if it's the hard realtime
>>one unless the app shows "misbehavior" (eg eats its timeslice for X times in
>>a row) might for example be such a solution. And with the anti abuse
>>protection it can run with far lighter privilegs.
> 
> 
> This reminds me about the soft-RT patch posted quite sometime ago.
> I feel such a handy psuedo-RT scheduler class would be useful for
> other systems than JACK, too...

You've already proven that soft RT does not suit your requirements. The 
current scheduler running a task at nice -20 has extremely long periods 
of cpu availability at the expense of lower priority tasks and is close 
to the behaviour you would get with a soft RT patch. Your concern is 
exactly the scenario where nice -20 fails, and would be the same 
scenario where a soft RT policy would fail. Doing this with a scheduling 
policy, you want cpu time long after there is any hope for fairness or 
safety of hanging. From experimentation with such soft RT policies, we 
find average latencies can be reduced but the maximum ones, which are 
the ones that concern professional audio, remain the same.

Cheers,
Con

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  reply	other threads:[~2005-01-08  5:38 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 266+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2004-12-30  2:43 [PATCH] [request for inclusion] Realtime LSM Lee Revell
2005-01-03 14:03 ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-03 14:15   ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-07 16:40     ` Lee Revell
2005-01-04 18:16   ` Lee Revell
2005-01-04 18:20     ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-04 18:55       ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-04 18:59         ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05  0:01           ` Alan Cox
2005-01-05  1:28             ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05  1:30             ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05  1:50             ` Chris Wright
2005-01-05  1:55               ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05  2:05                 ` Chris Wright
2005-01-05  2:58                   ` Kyle Moffett
2005-01-05  3:45                     ` Chris Wright
2005-01-05  4:06                   ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-05 11:52                 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-05 15:19                   ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05 15:21                   ` Lee Revell
2005-01-07 12:56                     ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 13:04                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-07 14:16                         ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 14:26                           ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-07 14:38                             ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 14:42                               ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-07 15:27                                 ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 15:33                                   ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-07 15:41                                     ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 16:03                                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-07 16:20                                         ` Takashi Iwai
2005-01-08  5:36                                           ` Con Kolivas [this message]
2005-01-08  6:21                                             ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-07 16:20                                         ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 21:12                                           ` Lee Revell
2005-01-07 21:49                                             ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-07 22:07                                               ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-01-07 22:36                                                 ` Chris Wright
2005-01-07 23:01                                                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-01-07 23:20                                                     ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-07 23:34                                                       ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-01-10 21:05                                                       ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-07 22:10                                               ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-07 22:26                                                 ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 22:29                                                 ` Chris Wright
2005-01-08  6:12                                                   ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-08 16:56                                                     ` ross
2005-01-08 18:25                                                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-08 22:20                                                       ` Lee Revell
2005-01-08 22:27                                                         ` Andreas Steinmetz
2005-01-08 22:14                                                     ` Lee Revell
2005-01-10 21:20                                                     ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 13:05                                                       ` Paul Davis
2005-01-11 16:28                                                         ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-11 18:59                                                           ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 20:47                                                           ` utz lehmann
2005-01-11 21:07                                                           ` Lee Revell
2005-01-11 19:17                                                         ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 19:42                                                           ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-11 20:50                                                           ` Chris Wright
2005-01-11 20:58                                                             ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-11 21:14                                                               ` Chris Wright
2005-01-11 21:27                                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-11 22:13                                                                   ` Chris Wright
2005-01-11 22:26                                                                     ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-12  3:21                                                                   ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-12  4:29                                                                     ` Chris Wright
2005-01-13  5:44                                                                   ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-13  6:34                                                                     ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-13 19:17                                                                       ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-14 20:52                                                                         ` Lee Revell
2005-01-15  0:42                                                                           ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-15  2:19                                                                             ` Randy.Dunlap
2005-01-15  4:06                                                                               ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-15 13:49                                                                     ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-15 23:02                                                                       ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-15 23:38                                                                         ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-16 23:13                                                                           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-16 23:57                                                                             ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-17  9:17                                                                               ` Sytse Wielinga
2005-01-17 14:36                                                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-17 10:06                                                                               ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-18  5:02                                                                                 ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-18  8:02                                                                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-18 17:05                                                                                     ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-19  8:24                                                                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-19 14:39                                                                                         ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-19 17:45                                                                                           ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-19 18:32                                                                                             ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-20  8:07                                                                                               ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-20  8:05                                                                                             ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-11 14:30                                                       ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-11 19:50                                                         ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 19:57                                                           ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-11 20:05                                                             ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 20:29                                                               ` Lee Revell
2005-01-11 20:47                                                                 ` Chris Wright
2005-01-11 21:10                                                                   ` Lee Revell
2005-01-11 21:20                                                                     ` Chris Wright
2005-01-11 21:28                                                                   ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 21:38                                                                     ` Lee Revell
2005-01-11 21:41                                                                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-11 22:51                                                                         ` Paul Davis
2005-01-11 23:05                                                                           ` Chris Wright
2005-01-12  1:43                                                                             ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-12  7:49                                                                               ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-12 21:12                                                                                 ` Lee Revell
2005-01-13  0:44                                                                                 ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-13  7:28                                                                                   ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-13 21:04                                                                                     ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-13 21:07                                                                                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-13 21:25                                                                                         ` Lee Revell
2005-01-13 21:43                                                                                           ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-13 23:31                                                                                             ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-14  0:33                                                                                               ` Chris Wright
2005-01-14  0:50                                                                                               ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-14  1:20                                                                                                 ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-14  1:27                                                                                                   ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-14 17:20                                                                                               ` Mike Galbraith
2005-01-15  1:14                                                                                                 ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-15  8:06                                                                                                   ` Mike Galbraith
2005-01-15 23:48                                                                                                     ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-14  2:05                                                                                           ` utz lehmann
2005-01-14  2:08                                                                                             ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-14  2:23                                                                                               ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-14  2:35                                                                                               ` utz lehmann
2005-01-14  2:42                                                                                                 ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-14  3:20                                                                                                   ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-14  3:28                                                                                                     ` utz lehmann
2005-01-14  3:26                                                                                                   ` utz lehmann
2005-01-14  2:24                                                                                             ` Nick Piggin
2005-01-14  2:40                                                                                               ` Paul Davis
2005-01-14  2:57                                                                                                 ` Nick Piggin
2005-01-14  3:12                                                                                                 ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-14  3:18                                                                                                   ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-14  3:30                                                                                                     ` Paul Davis
2005-01-14  3:38                                                                                                       ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-14  3:51                                                                                                         ` Paul Davis
2005-01-14  4:00                                                                                                           ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-14  4:16                                                                                                             ` Nick Piggin
2005-01-14  4:04                                                                                                         ` Nick Piggin
2005-01-14  3:31                                                                                                     ` Nick Piggin
2005-01-14  3:34                                                                                                       ` Paul Davis
2005-01-14  4:11                                                                                                       ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-14  4:23                                                                                                         ` Nick Piggin
2005-01-14  4:45                                                                                                           ` Paul Davis
2005-01-14  5:14                                                                                                             ` Nick Piggin
2005-01-14  9:21                                                                                                       ` Will Dyson
2005-01-14  9:54                                                                                                         ` Nick Piggin
2005-01-14  6:57                                                                                                   ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-14  7:04                                                                                                     ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-14  7:55                                                                                                       ` Chris Wright
2005-01-14 20:10                                                                                                     ` Chris Wright
2005-01-14 20:55                                                                                                       ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-14 23:04                                                                                                         ` Chris Wright
2005-01-15  0:58                                                                                                           ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 22:05                                                                       ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 21:42                                                                     ` Chris Wright
2005-01-11 22:16                                                                       ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 22:21                                                                         ` Chris Wright
2005-01-11 22:36                                                                           ` utz lehmann
2005-01-11 22:41                                                                             ` Chris Wright
2005-01-11 22:17                                                                     ` utz
2005-01-11 22:48                                                                     ` Paul Davis
2005-01-11 23:06                                                                       ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-12  2:13                                                                         ` Paul Davis
2005-01-12 19:09                                                                           ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-12 21:25                                                                             ` Lee Revell
2005-01-11 20:19                                                             ` Chris Friesen
2005-01-11 22:45                                                           ` Paul Davis
2005-01-11 21:21                                                     ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-12  2:10                                                       ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-15  4:56                                                       ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-15 14:43                                                         ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-15 23:10                                                           ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-16  1:48                                                             ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-16  4:30                                                               ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-16 23:22                                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-07 23:00                                                 ` Lee Revell
2005-01-07 22:22                                               ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 22:44                                               ` Andreas Steinmetz
2005-01-07 16:03                                       ` Martin Mares
2005-01-07 16:22                                         ` Paul Davis
2005-01-08 13:04                                           ` Paul Jakma
2005-01-07 14:47                               ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-07 15:26                                 ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 16:08                                   ` Martin Mares
2005-01-07 16:14                                     ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 16:29                                       ` Martin Mares
2005-01-07 16:36                                         ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 17:06                                           ` Martin Mares
2005-01-07 17:29                                             ` Chris Wright
2005-01-07 17:32                                               ` Martin Mares
2005-01-07 17:38                                                 ` Chris Wright
2005-01-07 19:55                                                 ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-07 16:37                                         ` Takashi Iwai
2005-01-07 16:41                                           ` Martin Mares
2005-01-07 17:53                                   ` Chris Wright
2005-01-07 18:01                             ` Chris Wright
2005-01-05 18:18                   ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-05  4:04             ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-05 11:25           ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-05 17:32             ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05 19:11               ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-05 11:20         ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-04 18:57       ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05  1:35         ` Andreas Steinmetz
2005-01-05  4:18           ` Alan Cox
2005-01-05  5:50             ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-05 12:06               ` Herbert Poetzl
2005-01-07  1:13                 ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-07  1:55                   ` Alan Cox
2005-01-07 20:05                     ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-05 20:09               ` Olaf Dietsche
2005-01-07  1:18             ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-07  2:36               ` Lee Revell
2005-01-07  5:54               ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-07 20:02                 ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-07 20:21                   ` Chris Wright
2005-01-07 20:27                   ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-07 20:46                     ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-07 20:55                       ` Lee Revell
2005-01-07 21:20                         ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-07 21:29                           ` Chris Wright
2005-01-07 20:45                   ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05 11:39           ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-05 17:35             ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05 19:11               ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-05 11:24         ` Christoph Hellwig
     [not found] <20050112185258.GG2940@waste.org>
2005-01-12 21:16 ` Paul Davis
2005-03-08  3:50   ` Andrew Morton
2005-03-08  3:55     ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-03-08  4:16       ` Andrew Morton
2005-03-08  4:22         ` Ingo Molnar
2005-03-08  4:28           ` Andrew Morton
2005-03-08  4:32             ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-03-08  4:47               ` Matt Mackall
2005-03-08  4:58                 ` Chris Wright
2005-03-08 18:55               ` Lee Revell
2005-03-08 19:11                 ` Paul Davis
2005-03-08 20:29                   ` Andrew Morton
2005-03-08 21:20                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-03-08 21:34                   ` Lee Revell
2005-03-08 23:55                     ` James Morris
2005-03-08  5:19           ` Jack O'Quin
2005-03-08  4:33     ` Matt Mackall
2005-03-08  4:40       ` Andrew Morton
2005-03-08  5:30         ` Jack O'Quin
2005-03-08  6:33           ` Matt Mackall
2005-03-09  3:39             ` Jack O'Quin
2005-03-09  3:44               ` Matt Mackall
2005-03-09  4:04                 ` Jack O'Quin
2005-03-10 14:01           ` Pavel Machek
2005-03-08  5:40         ` Peter Williams
2005-03-08  5:49           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-03-08  6:28             ` Peter Williams
2005-03-08  6:40               ` Chris Wright
2005-03-08  6:42                 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-03-08  6:00           ` Chris Wright
2005-03-08  6:18           ` Matt Mackall
2005-03-08  5:38       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-03-08  6:45       ` Chris Wright
2005-03-08  6:49         ` Matt Mackall
2005-03-08  6:55       ` Andrew Morton
2005-03-08  8:45         ` Matt Mackall
2005-03-08 19:17       ` utz lehmann

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