From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S263054AbVFXDV5 (ORCPT ); Thu, 23 Jun 2005 23:21:57 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S263027AbVFXDSi (ORCPT ); Thu, 23 Jun 2005 23:18:38 -0400 Received: from 69-18-3-179.lisco.net ([69.18.3.179]:2567 "EHLO ninja.slaphack.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S263024AbVFXDRO (ORCPT ); Thu, 23 Jun 2005 23:17:14 -0400 Message-ID: <42BB7B32.4010100@slaphack.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:17:06 -0500 From: David Masover User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (X11/20050325) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alan Cox Cc: Horst von Brand , Hans Reiser , Jeff Garzik , Christoph Hellwig , Andrew Morton , Linux Kernel Mailing List , ReiserFS List Subject: Re: reiser4 plugins References: <200506231924.j5NJOvLA031008@laptop11.inf.utfsm.cl> <42BB31E9.50805@slaphack.com> <1119570225.18655.75.camel@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <1119570225.18655.75.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.6.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Alan Cox wrote: > On Iau, 2005-06-23 at 23:04, David Masover wrote: > >>>What for? It works just fine as it stands, AFAICS. >> >>So does DOS. Do you use DOS? I don't even use DOS to run DOS programs. > > > False argument. So does the pen, so do hinges on doors. Do you still > have hinges on your doors - probably. Indeed. Because there's nothing better -- not because I "like it the way it is". >>"Ain't broke" is the battle cry of stagnation. > > > Its also the battle cry of everyone over the age of 20 who also has a > real job to do 8) You caught me. I'm not over 20. But I have a real job, with a company that understands the difference between "ain't broke" and "works well". >>But, there are some things Reiser does better and faster than ext3, even >>if you don't count file-as-directory and other toys. There's nothing >>ext3 does better than Reiser, unless you count the compatibility with >>random bootloaders and low-level tools. > > > Certainly compared with reiser3 you've missed a few out including > resilience to disk errors (nearly nil on reiser3), and SMP scaling. Actually, I was talking about reiser4. And Hans corrected me on that... Although resilience to disk errors isn't a design decision. That's what SMART and new hard drives are for. And if you're stubborn enough to keep the same FS around, there's dm-bbr. I think Hans (or someone) decided that when hardware stops working, it's not the job of the FS to compensate, it's the job of lower layers, or better, the job of the admin to replace the disk and restore from backups. >>You know how many I've had thrashed on Reiser4? Two. The first one was >>with a VERY early alpha/beta, and the second one was when I dropped a >>laptop and the disk failed. > > > Entirely or bad blocks ? The latter should have a minimal cost on a well > designed fs. I was able to recover from bad blocks, though of course no Reiser that I know of has had bad block relocation built in... But I got all my files off of it, fortunately. But the disk did fail, completely, later. Lots of loud clicking. >>Duplication of effort. With plugins, we can optimize the upper layers >>of ALL filesystems, regardless of the lower layers, in such a way that > > > In which case the features belong in the VFS as all those with > experience and kernel contributions have been arguing. No one's arguing that. What we're arguing is that there does seem to be a bit of prejudice when fuck-me-with-a-chainsaw and YOU ARE A FOOL FOR ENABLING THIS all got in, and with at least one of those, there doesn't seem to be any intention of changing it -- all of that, and even with an expressed intention to fix the aesthetical problems with Reiser4 later, we can't get the working version in now. More infuriatingly, I, at least, have a distinct feeling that once all the issues are fixed, an entirely different crowd of benevolent dictators will come around and say that we can't get in because we change the VFS. At least some people on this list have said things to that effect. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQIVAwUBQrt7MngHNmZLgCUhAQKdXA/+PDpOzZYTVXgF2n4qiFyrmjFeQ6h0n8i6 c/hXx+QUU0Hw5mjq31+jf2vNpDCKQxcE/HTLdJlRfw8az+xklVOfxzEHf9yV41tv mVKMRJYBhzk2mEvKEDNtnw47SQPBAKo9BtJvl7gOEofiPK/f2K/cy8yMUrow1E9D 02PNT0XX8ysoe86Dqip35+sphczkQN8gilXyUQujNe8edEdkW7PBhbJn92zBQag2 JxA194bquxRyhW78T3tKAEN6/tTPgZYJNy202KC619zzLlK3TslwjjfOQILdRb2i NNkaSQBdYDK70BiFs5Ri7ZbfJHenY6mgGv7yG0vjGF6zjoXtVNsKGrYt9KBL6E1D 392ayxOlWCvBoG9n9sAUzHzcQxmU1lP6OHcO9xWrL6ySD7Fzv4rCtM0uo7gXOzNB aDl5vK7q+ysEjOXZJWT0ikj5ndATCv0Ry8wnt1uL/uktOuaE0egwsouU0jgCDgx1 8Ib8KX/B6bhCy13WkYLPTb6Yg0k+ph0BUyONEcN5cxJIcqfcEt/4Un4MYM+CjGck KLYrrZDclZr8p/paWdNqx1dI9NIBn+F3u78OcWY3NIGfZPh1jmSdG3LRt9DZo5bZ ua2UlAiAWnEDHNLQyMH2zcji31DMqIUwmQ5bX9isBcxt8LORX+IKxoLdUICoY8JS Ii5kNWJAjf4= =Xsdv -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----