From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S263357AbVFYHqq (ORCPT ); Sat, 25 Jun 2005 03:46:46 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S263348AbVFYHqq (ORCPT ); Sat, 25 Jun 2005 03:46:46 -0400 Received: from 69-18-3-179.lisco.net ([69.18.3.179]:31495 "EHLO ninja.slaphack.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S263357AbVFYHqW (ORCPT ); Sat, 25 Jun 2005 03:46:22 -0400 Message-ID: <42BD0BC5.3040906@slaphack.com> Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 02:46:13 -0500 From: David Masover User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (X11/20050325) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jesper Krogh Cc: reiserfs-list@namesys.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: reiser4 plugins References: <200506231924.j5NJOvLA031008@laptop11.inf.utfsm.cl> <42BB31E9.50805@slaphack.com> <1119570225.18655.75.camel@localhost.localdomain> <42BB7B32.4010100@slaphack.com> <1119612849.17063.105.camel@localhost.localdomain> <42BCCC32.1090802@slaphack.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.6.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Jesper Krogh wrote: > ["Followup-To:" header set to gmane.linux.kernel.] > I gmane.linux.kernel, skrev David Masover: > >>>Most desktop users today don't have backups because there is no credible >>>backup technology for 500Gb of data. They may have partial backups. Some >> >> Bandwidth is getting faster. And I just found a nice site for backups >> called streamload.com. They don't seem to support rsync, and allow only >> 100 meg downloads, but unlimited uploads. >> >> Few desktop users today really need to backup more than 50 megs of data. > > > That gives tedious manual work.. and btw, won't save you if you from > loosing stuff from when the backup was made until now. Manual? Try scripting. For me, that's a tar command involving /home, /etc, and about one or two other files, with a few excludes, like /home/shared/video. >>>things the fs can't deal with - if the disk goes boom then thats a lower >>>level concern. Also certain bits like writing to spare blocks on a >>>problem write are indeed handled drive level nowdays. >> >> Right. And putting them in the FS is unneccesary bloat if you've got >> another mechanism for dealing with it. Anyone with 500 gigs of data can >> afford to do a little RAID, or at least some burned DVDs. >> >> DVDs are cheap nowdays: >> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817502002 > > > Again lots of manual work.. I actually have a DAT-station.. but I'm not > getting it used. People have DVD-burners, but many don't get time to do > a backup anyway. A Copy-On-Write feature in the filesystem would save > the average dataloss situation todag (for home users). Where they > accidentally deletes stuff. A lot of the people I know keep stuff on their DVDs, like movies and music, so they can carry them around. And the rest of it is the 50 megs. >> Streamload. > > > Why, when it could be quick and transparent. And Linux is used many > places where you cant let data out-of-the-house of where bandwidth > "sucks". The waste-space in my diskdrives increases everyday .. and i > fill up with a tar-ball of the system every now-and-then, but it would > definately be better suited and more effecient (save me more times) done > directly in the filesystem. Streamload is quick and transparent for me. I put files on the fileserver, it tars them up and uploads them via Streamload's perl client. >> I agree it's nice to have a more corruption-proof filesystem. >> Convenient. But not absolutely necessary. > > > Thats called raid, we have that allready. But raid won't help for and: > rm /etc/passwd, a Copy-On-Write filesystem (not-snapshot) would. Used on > a mirrored raiddisk, with enough space on the disk, it would actually > guard you from allmost anything but getting the computer stolen. > > Totally unrelated to reiser4 but a feature that would be nice to have in > "any" filesystem. Not totally unrelated. COW has been discussed. I don't remember if the low-level stuff was done, but the main complaint was a lack of a copy system call. And RAID is an argument for Reiser4's attitude that it's not the job of the FS to be corruption-proof. Still, it's far easier to avoid deleting stuff than to avoid disk failure. First priority is to get the stuff OFF the machine. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQIVAwUBQr0LxXgHNmZLgCUhAQKKBBAAiAicaEKY42s0WctOcLg/m/ciVtphQ1jY rChlThrsRCl4xAE45GgAu4P1ZdEYGwI1574W9z2j8EpbdnghX8tBHFUDSG1/K3+f 8Ud0zyMaI46k+D/IzkXS1ENYDj1PGmPAuVbM2pAa3JW0UOMzvKRsSADewxAW7OdY V9fazSYu6l7Sn64XJxpZmXs9fkElXkqaNu/2N5d6rdH8hMmLhxs8HcsbAaJ7ch87 lz2RMruQ4Keh6H6HTHHvmoYog6XakwkD0pOY0efFZolO/EZFnmIlS9VHRIyb6mls 2xKPABDh9Qq0qQxpATgmXnVI9oh9qgrp4wqQ8nTQfEnhL5fvfBTXzJgfjOJiqXUy vX4K/PP+9wzQNoqhTj4g11JBT8ilemsA4U+gbr82qSvvkOXrHkgGTQe6wgUyo6GZ R8Ui7/jmAvNw+RvfL/p0s0s3e/EimUC7ASvN64z6z77wqNH0uUfUwRmD9SL8TbTf jPdFvcd65F84T4gXphT4Dhwjs4fVjZUq3BqB+zMl3lKJP6pJfc5bqpjvqc2Rg1Yv jfpvk3gihG7YN68IgZV+9IHJG6d5P05gi/YMqu75JDkqTXe2VznOXXQp4d58PhO0 ZKJnvAfr/xKrnuwgDUjgfaHThgquyMiC95hMo4IlSEfUquKPFGY4c9k0VKQHduqc lcZOnfkvar0= =olqO -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----