From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1761619AbXKMTNX (ORCPT ); Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:13:23 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1761374AbXKMTND (ORCPT ); Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:13:03 -0500 Received: from rtr.ca ([76.10.145.34]:2339 "EHLO mail.rtr.ca" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1761313AbXKMTM7 (ORCPT ); Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:12:59 -0500 Message-ID: <4739F739.5040708@rtr.ca> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:12:57 -0500 From: Mark Lord User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Bunk Cc: Ingo Molnar , Andrew Morton , David Miller , protasnb@gmail.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, linux-pcmcia@lists.infradead.org, linux-input@atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz, bugme-daemon@bugzilla.kernel.org Subject: Re: [BUG] New Kernel Bugs References: <20071113.035824.40509981.davem@davemloft.net> <20071113041259.79c9a8c5.akpm@linux-foundation.org> <20071113134029.GA30978@elte.hu> <4739AFE0.20705@rtr.ca> <20071113164650.GA28493@elte.hu> <4739E3D0.10201@rtr.ca> <20071113181228.GF4250@stusta.de> <4739EA83.5040006@rtr.ca> <20071113183605.GG4250@stusta.de> <4739F12E.5020807@rtr.ca> <20071113190428.GH4250@stusta.de> In-Reply-To: <20071113190428.GH4250@stusta.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Adrian Bunk wrote: > On Tue, Nov 13, 2007 at 01:47:10PM -0500, Mark Lord wrote: >> Adrian Bunk wrote: >> ... >>> I did bisecting myself, and I know that it costs time and work. >>> >>> But the first point is the above one that it makes otherwise nearly >>> undebuggable problems debuggable and fixable. >> .. >> >> Definitely useful, no question. >> >> But the problem is now that kernel devs are addicted to it, >> many won't even consider resolving a problem any other way. >> >> That's not "maintaining" (or supporting) one's code. > > What you replaced with two dots contained the answer to this: > > Another point is that it shifts the work from the few experienced > developers to the many users. Users (and voluntary testers) we have > many, but developer time for debugging bug reports is a quite scarce > resource. > >> And when a "maintainer" is too busy to find/fix their own bugs, >> that could be a sign that they've bitten off too big of a chunk >> of the kernel, and it's time for them to distribute code maintainership. > > The problem is: Maintainers don't grow on trees. > > You need people who are both technically capable and willing to spend > time on the non-sexy task of debugging problems. > > Where do you plan to find them? > > If you don't believe me, please find a maintainer for the currently > unmaintained parallel port support. > > Or if you want a harder task, find a maintainer for the floppy driver... .. Again, the problem is: > But the problem is now that kernel devs are addicted to it, > many won't even consider resolving a problem any other way. And that's simply not good enough.