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From: Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org>
To: Arjan van de Ven <arjan@linux.intel.com>
Cc: Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	torvalds@linux-foundation.org, awalls@radix.net,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, jeff@garzik.org, mingo@elte.hu,
	akpm@linux-foundation.org, jens.axboe@oracle.com,
	rusty@rustcorp.com.au, cl@linux-foundation.org,
	dhowells@redhat.com, avi@redhat.com, johannes@sipsolutions.net
Subject: Re: workqueue thing
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 12:19:27 +0900	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4B2EE93F.40904@kernel.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4B2B9949.1000608@linux.intel.com>

Hello,

On 12/19/2009 12:01 AM, Arjan van de Ven wrote:
> in addition, threads are cheap. Linux has no technical problem with
> running 100's of kernel threads (if not 1000s); they cost basically
> a task struct and a stack (2 pages) each and that's about it.
> making an elaborate-and-thus-fragile design to save a few kernel
> threads is likely a bad design direction...

A resource not being scarce is very different from a resource being
limitless and doesn't mean we can use them without thinking about it.
If we haven't been trying to limit the number of threads used by
various subsystems, we could easily be looking at far larger number of
threads than we're using now and things would be breaking at the far
ends of the spectrum (very small or extremely large systems).

What cmwq does is managing this not-so-scarce resource automatically
at a single place and because the resource is not so scarce, it can be
made very mechanical and reliable.  No need to worry about managing
concurrencies or limit the number of threads from other places.  Sure,
it involves some amount of complex code in implementing workqueue
itself but we'll be removing a lot of complexities and codes from more
peripheral places and that is the right direction to go.  We can
easily get the core code right and after being properly debugged, cmwq
won't be fragile.  As an async mechanism, its operation is highly
deterministic and mechanical.

Thanks.

-- 
tejun

  reply	other threads:[~2009-12-21  3:17 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 104+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-12-18 12:57 Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:57 ` [PATCH 01/27] sched: rename preempt_notifiers to sched_notifiers and refactor implementation Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:57 ` [PATCH 02/27] sched: refactor try_to_wake_up() Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:57 ` [PATCH 03/27] sched: implement __set_cpus_allowed() Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:57 ` [PATCH 04/27] sched: make sched_notifiers unconditional Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:57 ` [PATCH 05/27] sched: add wakeup/sleep sched_notifiers and allow NULL notifier ops Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:57 ` [PATCH 06/27] sched: implement try_to_wake_up_local() Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:57 ` [PATCH 07/27] acpi: use queue_work_on() instead of binding workqueue worker to cpu0 Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:57 ` [PATCH 08/27] stop_machine: reimplement without using workqueue Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:57 ` [PATCH 09/27] workqueue: misc/cosmetic updates Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:57 ` [PATCH 10/27] workqueue: merge feature parameters into flags Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:57 ` [PATCH 11/27] workqueue: define both bit position and mask for work flags Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:57 ` [PATCH 12/27] workqueue: separate out process_one_work() Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:57 ` [PATCH 13/27] workqueue: temporarily disable workqueue tracing Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:57 ` [PATCH 14/27] workqueue: kill cpu_populated_map Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:57 ` [PATCH 15/27] workqueue: update cwq alignement Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:57 ` [PATCH 16/27] workqueue: reimplement workqueue flushing using color coded works Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:57 ` [PATCH 17/27] workqueue: introduce worker Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:57 ` [PATCH 18/27] workqueue: reimplement work flushing using linked works Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:58 ` [PATCH 19/27] workqueue: implement per-cwq active work limit Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:58 ` [PATCH 20/27] workqueue: reimplement workqueue freeze using max_active Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:58 ` [PATCH 21/27] workqueue: introduce global cwq and unify cwq locks Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:58 ` [PATCH 22/27] workqueue: implement worker states Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:58 ` [PATCH 23/27] workqueue: reimplement CPU hotplugging support using trustee Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:58 ` [PATCH 24/27] workqueue: make single thread workqueue shared worker pool friendly Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:58 ` [PATCH 25/27] workqueue: use shared worklist and pool all workers per cpu Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:58 ` [PATCH 26/27] workqueue: implement concurrency managed dynamic worker pool Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 12:58 ` [PATCH 27/27] workqueue: increase max_active of keventd and kill current_is_keventd() Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 13:00 ` SUBJ: [RFC PATCHSET] concurrency managed workqueue, take#2 Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 13:03 ` Tejun Heo
2009-12-18 13:45 ` workqueue thing Peter Zijlstra
2009-12-18 13:50   ` Andi Kleen
2009-12-18 15:01     ` Arjan van de Ven
2009-12-21  3:19       ` Tejun Heo [this message]
2009-12-21  9:17       ` Jens Axboe
2009-12-21 10:35         ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-12-21 11:09         ` Andi Kleen
2009-12-21 11:17           ` Arjan van de Ven
2009-12-21 11:33             ` Andi Kleen
2009-12-21 13:18             ` Tejun Heo
2009-12-21 11:11         ` Arjan van de Ven
2009-12-21 13:22           ` Tejun Heo
2009-12-21 13:53             ` Arjan van de Ven
2009-12-21 14:19               ` Tejun Heo
2009-12-21 15:19                 ` Arjan van de Ven
2009-12-22  0:00                   ` Tejun Heo
2009-12-22 11:10                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-12-22 17:20                       ` Linus Torvalds
2009-12-22 17:47                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-12-22 18:07                           ` Andi Kleen
2009-12-22 18:20                             ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-12-23  8:17                             ` Stijn Devriendt
2009-12-23  8:43                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-12-23  9:01                                 ` Stijn Devriendt
2009-12-22 18:28                           ` Linus Torvalds
2009-12-23  8:06                             ` Johannes Berg
2009-12-23  3:37                           ` Tejun Heo
2009-12-23  6:52                             ` Herbert Xu
2009-12-23  8:00                               ` Steffen Klassert
2009-12-23  8:01                                 ` [PATCH 0/2] Parallel crypto/IPsec v7 Steffen Klassert
2009-12-23  8:03                                   ` [PATCH 1/2] padata: generic parallelization/serialization interface Steffen Klassert
2009-12-23  8:04                                   ` [PATCH 2/2] crypto: pcrypt - Add pcrypt crypto parallelization wrapper Steffen Klassert
2010-01-07  5:39                                   ` [PATCH 0/2] Parallel crypto/IPsec v7 Herbert Xu
2010-01-16  9:44                                     ` David Miller
2009-12-18 15:30   ` workqueue thing Linus Torvalds
2009-12-18 15:39     ` Ingo Molnar
2009-12-18 15:39     ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-12-18 15:47       ` Linus Torvalds
2009-12-18 15:53         ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-12-21  3:04   ` Tejun Heo
2009-12-21  9:22     ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-12-21 13:30       ` Tejun Heo
2009-12-21 14:26         ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-12-21 23:50           ` Tejun Heo
2009-12-22 11:00             ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-12-22 11:03             ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-12-23  3:43               ` Tejun Heo
2009-12-22 11:04             ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-12-23  3:48               ` Tejun Heo
2009-12-22 11:06             ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-12-23  4:18               ` Tejun Heo
2009-12-23  4:42                 ` Linus Torvalds
2009-12-23  6:02                   ` Ingo Molnar
2009-12-23  6:13                     ` Jeff Garzik
2009-12-23  7:53                       ` Ingo Molnar
2009-12-23  8:41                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-12-23 10:25                         ` Jeff Garzik
2009-12-23 13:33                           ` Stefan Richter
2009-12-23 14:20                           ` Mark Brown
2009-12-23  7:09                     ` Tejun Heo
2009-12-23  8:01                       ` Ingo Molnar
2009-12-23  8:12                         ` Ingo Molnar
2009-12-23  8:32                           ` Tejun Heo
2009-12-23  8:42                             ` Ingo Molnar
2009-12-23  8:27                         ` Tejun Heo
2009-12-23  8:37                           ` Ingo Molnar
2009-12-23  8:49                             ` Tejun Heo
2009-12-23  8:49                               ` Ingo Molnar
2009-12-23  9:03                                 ` Tejun Heo
2009-12-23 13:40                             ` Stefan Richter
2009-12-23 13:43                               ` Stefan Richter
2009-12-23  8:25                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2009-12-23 13:00                     ` Stefan Richter
2009-12-23  8:31             ` Stijn Devriendt

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