From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1751403Ab3G0KfA (ORCPT ); Sat, 27 Jul 2013 06:35:00 -0400 Received: from mms1.broadcom.com ([216.31.210.17]:4728 "EHLO mms1.broadcom.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751235Ab3G0Kez (ORCPT ); Sat, 27 Jul 2013 06:34:55 -0400 X-Server-Uuid: 06151B78-6688-425E-9DE2-57CB27892261 Message-ID: <51F3A238.3020505@broadcom.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 12:34:32 +0200 From: "Arend van Spriel" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130623 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Tomasz Figa" cc: "Richard Cochran" , "Olof Johansson" , "Mark Brown" , "Mark Rutland" , "devicetree@vger.kernel.org" , "ksummit-2013-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" , "Russell King - ARM Linux" , "Ian Campbell" , "Pawel Moll" , "Stephen Warren" , "Domenico Andreoli" , "rob.herring@calxeda.com" , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" , "Jason Gunthorpe" , "Dave P Martin" , "linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org" Subject: Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] DT bindings as ABI [was: Do we have people interested in device tree janitoring / cleanup?] References: <20130725175702.GC22291@e106331-lin.cambridge.arm.com> <20130727050406.GB4221@netboy> <2007664.vYsECFSKrV@flatron> <51F39FD8.6080808@broadcom.com> In-Reply-To: <51F39FD8.6080808@broadcom.com> X-WSS-ID: 7DED7ED331W56449300-01-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On 07/27/2013 12:24 PM, Arend van Spriel wrote: > On 07/27/2013 11:51 AM, Tomasz Figa wrote: >> On Saturday 27 of July 2013 07:04:08 Richard Cochran wrote: >>> On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 08:49:43AM -0700, Olof Johansson wrote: >>>> Long term, final goal is likely to be close to what Russell is saying >>> >>> Why is this a long term goal? Start today. >>> >>>> -- nothing should go into the kernel tree unless the binding is in a >>>> fully stable state. However, we have a transitional period between now >>>> and then, and even when we're at the final state there will be need to >>>> have some sort of sandbox for development and test of future bindings. >>> >>> Why not just set up a git tree right away? >>> >>>> Dealing with all that, as well as the actual process for locking in >>>> bindings, is what needs to be sorted out. >>>> >>>> I think we're all in agreement that bindings that change over time are >>>> nothing but pain, but we're arguing that in circles anyway. >>> >>> No. >>> >>> I keep saying, the bindings must be stable ABI, *today*. >>> >>> You keep saying, maybe later, but until then we will make things up as >>> we go along. >> >> We have currently a lot of broken bindings, because people didn't know >> how >> to define ones and those they defined have not been properly reviewed. Do >> you really want such broken ABI in the kernel? >> >> Sure, there are many existing bindings that can be just made stable and >> well they probably are already de facto stable. This is mostly about >> subsystem bindings and whatever already has many users, both made them >> get >> more thought when designing and more review before merging. >> >> Still, a lot of device and platform-specific bindings are simply broken. >> Take max8925 backlight driver, that Olof started this whole discussion >> with, as an example. We need to sort them out before they can be >> stabilized. > > That is a nice summary of how we got from null to now and Richard seems > to be simply saying: let's stop mucking about and make this a project > with a well-defined process of dealing with staging and stable bindings > and keep stable bindings stable. Whether it should be within the kernel > repo as a separate subsystem or in an entire different repo is a trivial > decision, but still a decision that needs to be made. > > Apart from stable DT bindings I would love to see a DT compiler that > that next to DT syntax detects mistakes in properties used for the > selfish reason that I spent hours debugging regulator code, because I > typed vmmc_supply iso vmmc-supply. I did not go through all the > bindings, but this may require a more formal description so it could be > compiled/read in the DT compiler. Oh, and the reason for my tinkering on dts is here: http://mid.gmane.org/51E7AA24.6080600@broadcom.com Happily using Pandaboard for my driver testing and than *kaboom*. board-omap4panda.c is gone although the device tree does not provide the same functionality. Of course, this is not about DT bindings. Regards, Arend