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From: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>
To: Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
	Brian Gerst <brgerst@gmail.com>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	stable@vger.kernel.org, "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@linux.intel.com>
Subject: Re: [tip:x86/urgent] x86-64, modify_ldt: Ban 16-bit segments on 64-bit kernels
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2014 14:24:37 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <53485D95.9030301@zytor.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <53485BB8.1000106@mit.edu>

On 04/11/2014 02:16 PM, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> On 04/11/2014 11:29 AM, H. Peter Anvin wrote:
>> On 04/11/2014 11:27 AM, Brian Gerst wrote:
>>> Is this bug really still present in modern CPUs?  This change breaks
>>> running 16-bit apps in Wine.  I have a few really old games I like to
>>> play on occasion, and I don't have a copy of Win 3.11 to put in a VM.
>>
>> It is not a bug, per se, but an architectural definition issue, and it
>> is present in all x86 processors from all vendors.
>>
>> Yes, it does break running 16-bit apps in Wine, although Wine could be
>> modified to put 16-bit apps in a container.  However, this is at best a
>> marginal use case.
> 
> I wonder if there's an easy-ish good-enough fix:
> 
> Allocate some percpu space in the fixmap.  (OK, this is ugly, but
> kvmclock already does it, so it's possible.)  To return to 16-bit
> userspace, make sure interrupts are off, copy the whole iret descriptor
> to the current cpu's fixmap space, change rsp to point to that space,
> and then do the iret.
> 
> This won't restore the correct value to the high bits of [er]sp, but it
> will at least stop leaking anything interesting to userspace.
> 

This would fix the infoleak, at the cost of allocating a chunk of memory
for each CPU.  It doesn't fix the functionality problem.

If we're going to do a workaround I would prefer to do something that
fixes both, but it is highly nontrivial.

This is a writeup I did to a select audience before this was public:

> Hello,
> 
> It appears we have an information leak on x86-64 by which at least bits
> [31:16] of the kernel stack address leaks to user space (some silicon
> including the 64-bit Pentium 4 leaks [63:16]).  This is due to the the
> behavior of IRET when returning to a 16-bit segment: IRET restores only
> the bottom 16 bits of the stack pointer.
> 
> This is known on 32 bits and we, in fact, have a workaround for it
> ("espfix") there.  We do not, however, have the equivalent on 64 bits,
> nor does it seem that it is very easy to construct a workaround (see below.)
> 
> This is both a functionality problem (16-bit code gets the upper bits of
> %esp corrupted when the kernel is invoked) and an information leak.  The
> 32-bit workaround was labeled as a fix for the functionality problem,
> but it of course also addresses the leak.
> 
> On 64 bits, the easiest mitigation seems to be to make modify_ldt()
> refuse to install a 16-bit segment when running on a 64-bit kernel.
> 16-bit support is already somewhat crippled on 64 bits since there is no
> V86 support; obviously, for "full service" support we can always set up
> a virtual machine -- most (but sadly, not all) 64-bit parts are also
> virtualization capable.
> 
> I would have suggested rejecting modify_ldt() entirely, to reduce attack
> surface, except that some early versions of 32-bit NPTL glibc use
> modify_ldt() to exclusion of all other methods of establishing the
> thread pointer, so in order to stay compatible with those we would need
> to allow 32-bit segments via modify_ldt() still.
> 
> However, there is no doubt this will break some legitimate users of
> 16-bit segments, e.g. Wine for 16-bit Windows apps (which don't work on
> 64-bit Windows either, for what it is worth.)
> 
> We may very well have other infoleaks that dwarf this, but the kernel
> stack address is a relatively high value item for exploits.
> 
> Some workarounds I have considered:
> 
> a. Using paging in a similar way to the 32-bit segment base workaround
> 
> This one requires a very large swath of virtual user space (depending on
> allocation policy, as much as 4 GiB per CPU.)  The "per CPU" requirement
> comes in as locking is not feasible -- as we return to user space there
> is nowhere to release the lock.
> 
> b. Return to user space via compatibility mode
> 
> As the kernel lives above the 4 GiB virtual mark, a transition through
> compatibility mode is not practical.  This would require the kernel to
> reserve virtual address space below the 4 GiB mark, which may interfere
> with the application, especially an application launched as a 64-bit
> application.
> 
> c. Trampoline in kernel space
> 
> A trampoline in kernel space is not feasible since all ring transition
> instructions capable of returning to 16-bit mode require the use of the
> stack.
> 
> d. Trampoline in user space
> 
> A return to the vdso with values set up in registers r8-r15 would enable
> a trampoline in user space.  Unfortunately there is no way
> to do a far JMP entirely with register state so this would require
> touching user space memory, possibly in an unsafe manner.
> 
> The most likely variant is to use the address of the 16-bit user stack
> and simply hope that this is a safe thing to do.
> 
> This appears to be the most feasible workaround if a workaround is
> deemed necessary.
> 
> e. Transparently run 16-bit code segments inside a lightweight VMM
> 
> The complexity of this solution versus the realized value is staggering.
> It also doesn't work on non-virtualization-capable hardware (including
> running on top of a VMM which doesn't support nested virtualization.)
> 
> 	-hpa


  reply	other threads:[~2014-04-11 21:25 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 137+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-04-11 17:36 [tip:x86/urgent] x86-64, modify_ldt: Ban 16-bit segments on 64-bit kernels tip-bot for H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-11 18:12 ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-04-11 18:20   ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-11 18:27 ` Brian Gerst
2014-04-11 18:29   ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-11 18:35     ` Brian Gerst
2014-04-11 21:16     ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-04-11 21:24       ` H. Peter Anvin [this message]
2014-04-11 21:53         ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-04-11 21:59           ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-11 22:15             ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-04-11 22:18               ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-13  4:20           ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-12 23:26         ` Alexander van Heukelum
2014-04-12 23:31           ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-12 23:49             ` Alexander van Heukelum
2014-04-13  0:03               ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-13  1:25                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-04-13  1:29                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-04-13  3:00                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-11 21:34       ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-11 18:41   ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-11 18:45     ` Brian Gerst
2014-04-11 18:50       ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-12  4:44         ` Brian Gerst
2014-04-12 17:18           ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-12 19:35             ` Borislav Petkov
2014-04-12 19:44               ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-12 20:11                 ` Borislav Petkov
2014-04-12 20:34                   ` Brian Gerst
2014-04-12 20:59                     ` Borislav Petkov
2014-04-12 21:13                       ` Brian Gerst
2014-04-12 21:40                         ` Borislav Petkov
2014-04-14  7:21                           ` Ingo Molnar
2014-04-14  9:44                             ` Borislav Petkov
2014-04-14  9:47                               ` Ingo Molnar
2014-04-12 21:53                 ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-12 22:25                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-13  2:56                     ` Andi Kleen
2014-04-13  3:02                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-13  3:13                       ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-12 20:29             ` Brian Gerst
2014-04-14  7:48         ` Alexandre Julliard
2014-05-07  9:18           ` Sven Joachim
2014-05-07 10:18             ` Borislav Petkov
2014-05-07 16:57             ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-07 17:09               ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-07 17:50                 ` Alexandre Julliard
2014-05-08  6:43                 ` Sven Joachim
2014-05-08 13:50                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-08 20:13                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-08 20:40                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-12 13:16               ` Josh Boyer
2014-05-12 16:52                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-14 23:43               ` [tip:x86/urgent] x86-64, modify_ldt: Make support for 16-bit segments a runtime option tip-bot for Linus Torvalds
2014-04-11 18:46     ` [tip:x86/urgent] x86-64, modify_ldt: Ban 16-bit segments on 64-bit kernels H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-14  7:27       ` Ingo Molnar
2014-04-14 15:45         ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-13  2:54     ` Andi Kleen
2014-04-21 22:47 ` [PATCH] x86-64: espfix for 64-bit mode *PROTOTYPE* H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-21 23:19   ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-21 23:29     ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22  0:37       ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-22  0:53         ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22  1:06           ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-22  1:14             ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22  1:28               ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-22  1:47                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22  1:53                   ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-22 11:23                     ` Borislav Petkov
2014-04-22 14:46                       ` Borislav Petkov
2014-04-22 16:03                         ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-22 16:10                           ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22 16:33                             ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-22 16:43                               ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-22 17:00                                 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-22 17:04                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-22 17:11                                     ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-22 17:15                                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-23  9:54                                         ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-04-23 15:53                                           ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-23 17:08                                             ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-23 17:16                                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-23 17:25                                                 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-23 17:28                                                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-23 17:45                                                     ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-22 17:19                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-22 17:29                                         ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22 17:46                                           ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-22 17:59                                             ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22 18:03                                             ` Brian Gerst
2014-04-22 18:06                                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22 18:17                                                 ` Brian Gerst
2014-04-22 18:51                                                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22 19:55                                                     ` Brian Gerst
2014-04-22 20:17                                                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22 23:08                                                         ` Brian Gerst
2014-04-22 23:39                                                     ` Andi Kleen
2014-04-22 23:40                                                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22 17:11                                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22 17:26                                       ` Borislav Petkov
2014-04-22 17:29                                         ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-22 19:27                                           ` Borislav Petkov
2014-04-23  6:24                                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-23  8:57                                       ` Alexandre Julliard
2014-04-22 17:09                                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22 17:20                                     ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-22 17:24                                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22 11:25   ` Borislav Petkov
2014-04-23  1:17   ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-23  1:23     ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-23  1:42       ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-23 14:24         ` Boris Ostrovsky
2014-04-23 16:56           ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-28 13:04             ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2014-04-25 21:02     ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2014-04-25 21:16       ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-24  4:13   ` comex
2014-04-24  4:53     ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-24 22:24       ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-24 22:31         ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-24 22:37           ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-24 22:43             ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-28 23:05       ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-28 23:08         ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-29  0:02           ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-29  0:15             ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-29  0:20             ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-29  2:38               ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-29  2:44                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-29  3:45                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-29  3:47                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-29  4:36                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-29  7:14                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-25 12:02   ` Pavel Machek
2014-04-25 21:20     ` H. Peter Anvin
     [not found] <CAM1qvvhTaChkceBawnZZKZYT6tURcVZQe3upq3dpn_S9wp0C-Q@mail.gmail.com>
2014-04-13 13:03 ` [tip:x86/urgent] x86-64, modify_ldt: Ban 16-bit segments on 64-bit kernels Jan Janecek

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