From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A5B7C43387 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 02:17:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21D6820870 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 02:17:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1726751AbfAMCRu (ORCPT ); Sat, 12 Jan 2019 21:17:50 -0500 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:59792 "EHLO mx1.redhat.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726472AbfAMCRt (ORCPT ); Sat, 12 Jan 2019 21:17:49 -0500 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx04.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30EBE83F46; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 02:17:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from colo-mx.corp.redhat.com (colo-mx01.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.20]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C313B6C203; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 02:17:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from zmail21.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (zmail21.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.83.24]) by colo-mx.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C29518005AF; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 02:17:47 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 21:17:46 -0500 (EST) From: Pankaj Gupta To: Dan Williams Cc: Jan Kara , KVM list , David Hildenbrand , linux-nvdimm , Jason Wang , Dave Chinner , Qemu Developers , virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, adilger kernel , Ross Zwisler , dave jiang , darrick wong , vishal l verma , "Michael S. Tsirkin" , Matthew Wilcox , Christoph Hellwig , Linux ACPI , jmoyer , linux-ext4 , Rik van Riel , Stefan Hajnoczi , Igor Mammedov , lcapitulino@redhat.com, Kevin Wolf , Nitesh Narayan Lal , Theodore Ts'o , xiaoguangrong eric , "Rafael J. Wysocki" , Linux Kernel Mailing List , linux-xfs , linux-fsdevel , Paolo Bonzini Message-ID: <540171952.63371441.1547345866585.JavaMail.zimbra@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20190109144736.17452-1-pagupta@redhat.com> <20190110012617.GA4205@dastard> <20190110101757.GC15790@quack2.suse.cz> <1354249849.63357171.1547343519970.JavaMail.zimbra@redhat.com> Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] [PATCH v3 0/5] kvm "virtio pmem" device MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [10.67.116.34, 10.4.195.28] Thread-Topic: kvm "virtio pmem" device Thread-Index: fIS0FE80De2gpF0vmIHBYz9C3cIQtA== X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.14 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.5.110.27]); Sun, 13 Jan 2019 02:17:48 +0000 (UTC) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu 10-01-19 12:26:17, Dave Chinner wrote: > > > > On Wed, Jan 09, 2019 at 08:17:31PM +0530, Pankaj Gupta wrote: > > > > > This patch series has implementation for "virtio pmem". > > > > > "virtio pmem" is fake persistent memory(nvdimm) in guest > > > > > which allows to bypass the guest page cache. This also > > > > > implements a VIRTIO based asynchronous flush mechanism. > > > > > > > > Hmmmm. Sharing the host page cache direct into the guest VM. Sounds > > > > like a good idea, but..... > > > > > > > > This means the guest VM can now run timing attacks to observe host > > > > side page cache residency, and depending on the implementation I'm > > > > guessing that the guest will be able to control host side page > > > > cache eviction, too (e.g. via discard or hole punch operations). > > > > > > > > Which means this functionality looks to me like a new vector for > > > > information leakage into and out of the guest VM via guest > > > > controlled host page cache manipulation. > > > > > > > > https://arxiv.org/pdf/1901.01161 > > > > > > > > I might be wrong, but if I'm not we're going to have to be very > > > > careful about how guest VMs can access and manipulate host side > > > > resources like the page cache..... > > > > > > Right. Thinking about this I would be more concerned about the fact that > > > guest can effectively pin amount of host's page cache upto size of the > > > device/file passed to guest as PMEM, can't it Pankaj? Or is there some > > > QEMU > > > magic that avoids this? > > > > Yes, guest will pin these host page cache pages using 'get_user_pages' by > > elevating the page reference count. But these pages can be reclaimed by > > host > > at any time when there is memory pressure. > > Wait, how can the guest pin the host pages? I would expect this to > happen only when using vfio and device assignment. Otherwise, no the > host can't reclaim a pinned page, that's the whole point of a pin to > prevent the mm from reclaiming ownership. yes. You are right I just used the pin word but it does not actually pin pages permanently. I had gone through the discussion on existing problems with get_user_pages and DMA e.g [1] to understand Jan's POV. It does mention GUP pin pages so I also used the word 'pin'. But guest does not permanently pin these pages and these pages can be reclaimed by host. > > > KVM does not permanently pin pages. vfio does that but we are not using > > it here. > > Right, so I'm confused by your pin assertion above. Sorry! for the confusion. [1] https://lwn.net/Articles/753027/ Thanks, Pankaj