From: Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>
To: Nicholas Piggin <npiggin@gmail.com>, paulmck <paulmck@kernel.org>,
Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>
Cc: Anton Blanchard <anton@ozlabs.org>, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
linux-arch <linux-arch@vger.kernel.org>,
linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
linux-mm <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
linuxppc-dev <linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org>,
Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>, x86 <x86@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 4/7] x86: use exit_lazy_tlb rather than membarrier_mm_sync_core_before_usermode
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 14:58:41 -0400 (EDT) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <595582123.17106.1594925921537.JavaMail.zimbra@efficios.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1370747990.15974.1594915396143.JavaMail.zimbra@efficios.com>
----- On Jul 16, 2020, at 12:03 PM, Mathieu Desnoyers mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com wrote:
> ----- On Jul 16, 2020, at 11:46 AM, Mathieu Desnoyers
> mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com wrote:
>
>> ----- On Jul 16, 2020, at 12:42 AM, Nicholas Piggin npiggin@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I should be more complete here, especially since I was complaining
>>> about unclear barrier comment :)
>>>
>>>
>>> CPU0 CPU1
>>> a. user stuff 1. user stuff
>>> b. membarrier() 2. enter kernel
>>> c. smp_mb() 3. smp_mb__after_spinlock(); // in __schedule
>>> d. read rq->curr 4. rq->curr switched to kthread
>>> e. is kthread, skip IPI 5. switch_to kthread
>>> f. return to user 6. rq->curr switched to user thread
>>> g. user stuff 7. switch_to user thread
>>> 8. exit kernel
>>> 9. more user stuff
>>>
>>> What you're really ordering is a, g vs 1, 9 right?
>>>
>>> In other words, 9 must see a if it sees g, g must see 1 if it saw 9,
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> Userspace does not care where the barriers are exactly or what kernel
>>> memory accesses might be being ordered by them, so long as there is a
>>> mb somewhere between a and g, and 1 and 9. Right?
>>
>> This is correct.
>
> Actually, sorry, the above is not quite right. It's been a while
> since I looked into the details of membarrier.
>
> The smp_mb() at the beginning of membarrier() needs to be paired with a
> smp_mb() _after_ rq->curr is switched back to the user thread, so the
> memory barrier is between store to rq->curr and following user-space
> accesses.
>
> The smp_mb() at the end of membarrier() needs to be paired with the
> smp_mb__after_spinlock() at the beginning of schedule, which is
> between accesses to userspace memory and switching rq->curr to kthread.
>
> As to *why* this ordering is needed, I'd have to dig through additional
> scenarios from https://lwn.net/Articles/573436/. Or maybe Paul remembers ?
Thinking further about this, I'm beginning to consider that maybe we have been
overly cautious by requiring memory barriers before and after store to rq->curr.
If CPU0 observes a CPU1's rq->curr->mm which differs from its own process (current)
while running the membarrier system call, it necessarily means that CPU1 had
to issue smp_mb__after_spinlock when entering the scheduler, between any user-space
loads/stores and update of rq->curr.
Requiring a memory barrier between update of rq->curr (back to current process's
thread) and following user-space memory accesses does not seem to guarantee
anything more than what the initial barrier at the beginning of __schedule already
provides, because the guarantees are only about accesses to user-space memory.
Therefore, with the memory barrier at the beginning of __schedule, just observing that
CPU1's rq->curr differs from current should guarantee that a memory barrier was issued
between any sequentially consistent instructions belonging to the current process on
CPU1.
Or am I missing/misremembering an important point here ?
Thanks,
Mathieu
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mathieu
>
>
>> Note that the accesses to user-space memory can be
>> done either by user-space code or kernel code, it doesn't matter.
>> However, in order to be considered as happening before/after
>> either membarrier or the matching compiler barrier, kernel code
>> needs to have causality relationship with user-space execution,
>> e.g. user-space does a system call, or returns from a system call.
>>
>> In the case of io_uring, submitting a request or returning from waiting
>> on request completion appear to provide this causality relationship.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mathieu
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mathieu Desnoyers
>> EfficiOS Inc.
>> http://www.efficios.com
>
> --
> Mathieu Desnoyers
> EfficiOS Inc.
> http://www.efficios.com
--
Mathieu Desnoyers
EfficiOS Inc.
http://www.efficios.com
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-07-16 18:58 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 59+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-07-10 1:56 [RFC PATCH 0/7] mmu context cleanup, lazy tlb cleanup, Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-10 1:56 ` [RFC PATCH 1/7] asm-generic: add generic MMU versions of mmu context functions Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-10 1:56 ` [RFC PATCH 2/7] arch: use asm-generic mmu context for no-op implementations Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-10 1:56 ` [RFC PATCH 3/7] mm: introduce exit_lazy_tlb Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-10 1:56 ` [RFC PATCH 4/7] x86: use exit_lazy_tlb rather than membarrier_mm_sync_core_before_usermode Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-10 9:42 ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-10 14:02 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-10 17:04 ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-13 4:45 ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-13 13:47 ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-13 14:13 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-13 15:48 ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-13 16:37 ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-16 4:15 ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-16 4:42 ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-16 15:46 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-16 16:03 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-16 18:58 ` Mathieu Desnoyers [this message]
2020-07-16 21:24 ` Alan Stern
2020-07-17 13:39 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-17 14:51 ` Alan Stern
2020-07-17 15:39 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-17 16:11 ` Alan Stern
2020-07-17 16:22 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-17 17:44 ` Alan Stern
2020-07-17 17:52 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-17 0:00 ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-16 5:18 ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-16 6:06 ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-16 8:50 ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-16 10:03 ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-16 11:00 ` peterz
2020-07-16 15:34 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-16 23:26 ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-17 13:42 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-20 3:03 ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-20 16:46 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-21 10:04 ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-21 13:11 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-21 14:30 ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-21 15:06 ` peterz
2020-07-21 15:15 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-21 15:19 ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-21 15:22 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-07-10 1:56 ` [RFC PATCH 5/7] lazy tlb: introduce lazy mm refcount helper functions Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-10 9:48 ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-10 1:56 ` [RFC PATCH 6/7] lazy tlb: allow lazy tlb mm switching to be configurable Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-10 1:56 ` [RFC PATCH 7/7] lazy tlb: shoot lazies, a non-refcounting lazy tlb option Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-10 9:35 ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-13 4:58 ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-13 15:59 ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-13 16:48 ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-13 18:18 ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-14 5:04 ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-14 6:31 ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-14 12:46 ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-14 13:23 ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-16 2:26 ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-07-16 2:35 ` Nicholas Piggin
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