From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1751400AbWGaXnX (ORCPT ); Mon, 31 Jul 2006 19:43:23 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1751490AbWGaXnX (ORCPT ); Mon, 31 Jul 2006 19:43:23 -0400 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.185]:25512 "EHLO nf-out-0910.google.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751400AbWGaXnW (ORCPT ); Mon, 31 Jul 2006 19:43:22 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=gJASJUYiHzbj4jo+JIMjZxKn+15gVfB4m1sL2jrllYUf8Wrj8xpWpnpF+R89p4aLobtq2rluuBt1XPqXSRqOPi3EQoeIWbuzBX9dM3NWZp4Xx6LnNmc5r6+oIVySA6/7Ci31nv2vCXDL002J1Q3dbxpoYMu/dnH7/u4S3nCUNwQ= Message-ID: <5c49b0ed0607311643r61570665ga4d8a70beaeb17f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 16:43:11 -0700 From: "Nate Diller" To: "Jeff V. Merkey" Subject: Re: the " 'official' point of view" expressed by kernelnewbies.org regarding reiser4 inclusion Cc: "Gregory Maxwell" , "Alan Cox" , "Clay Barnes" , "Rudy Zijlstra" , "Adrian Ulrich" , vonbrand@inf.utfsm.cl, ipso@snappymail.ca, reiser@namesys.com, lkml@lpbproductions.com, jeff@garzik.org, tytso@mit.edu, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, reiserfs-list@namesys.com In-Reply-To: <44CE97AD.7030300@wolfmountaingroup.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1153760245.5735.47.camel@ipso.snappymail.ca> <20060731173239.GO31121@lug-owl.de> <20060731181120.GA9667@merlin.emma.line.org> <20060731184314.GQ31121@lug-owl.de> <20060731191712.GE17206@HAL_5000D.tc.ph.cox.net> <1154374923.7230.99.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44CE7C11.7020202@wolfmountaingroup.com> <5c49b0ed0607311556s50b77c07o150497f8e4bd3fd3@mail.gmail.com> <44CE97AD.7030300@wolfmountaingroup.com> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On 7/31/06, Jeff V. Merkey wrote: > Nate Diller wrote: > > > On 7/31/06, Jeff V. Merkey wrote: > > > >> Gregory Maxwell wrote: > >> > >> > On 7/31/06, Alan Cox wrote: > >> > > >> >> Its well accepted that reiserfs3 has some robustness problems in the > >> >> face of physical media errors. The structure of the file system > >> and the > >> >> tree basis make it very hard to avoid such problems. XFS appears > >> to have > >> >> managed to achieve both robustness and better data structures. > >> >> > >> >> How reiser4 compares I've no idea. > >> > > >> > > >> > Citation? > >> > > >> > I ask because your clam differs from the only detailed research that > >> > I'm aware of on the subject[1]. In figure 2 of the iron filesystems > >> > paper that Ext3 is show to ignore a great number of data-loss inducing > >> > failure conditions that Reiser3 detects an panics under. > >> > > >> > Are you sure that you aren't commenting on cases where Reiser3 alerts > >> > the user to a critical data condition (via a panic) which leads to a > >> > trouble report while ext3 ignores the problem which suppresses the > >> > trouble report from the user? > >> > > >> > *1) http://www.cs.wisc.edu/adsl/Publications/iron-sosp05.pdf > >> > >> Hi Gregory, Wikimedia Foundation and LKML? > >> > >> How's Wikimania going. :-) > >> > >> What he says is correct. I have seen some serious issues with reiserfs > >> in terms of stability and > >> data corruption. Resier is however FASTER, but the statement is has > >> robustness issues is accurate. > >> I was using reiserfs but we opted to make EXT3 the default for Solera > >> appliances, even when using Suse 10 > >> due to issues I have seen with data corruption and hard hangs on RAID 0 > >> read/write sector errors. I have > >> stopped using it for local drives and based everything on EXT3. Not to > >> say it won't get there eventually, but > >> file systems have to endure a lot of time in the field and deployment > >> befor they are ready for prime time. > >> > >> The Wikimedia appliances use Wolf Mountain, and I've tested it for about > >> 4 months with few problems, but > >> I only use it for hosting the Cherokee Langauge Wikipedia. It's > >> performance is several magnitudes better > >> than either EXT3 or ReiserFS. Despite this, for vertical wiki servers, > >> its ok to go out with, folks can specifiy > >> whether they want appliances with EXT3, Reiser, or WMFS, but iit's a > >> long way from being "cooked" > >> completely, though it does scale to 1 exabyte FS images. > > > > > > i've seen you mention the Wolf Mountain FS in other emails, but google > > isn't telling me a lot about it. Do you have a whitepaper? are there > > any published benchmark results? what sort of workloads do you > > benchmark? > > > > NATE > > > Wikipedia is the app for now. I have not done any benchmarks on the FS > side, just the capture side, and its been transferred to > another entity. I have no idea what they are naming it to, but I expect > you may hear about it soon. One of the incarnations > of it is Solera's DSFS which can be reviewed here: > > www.soleranetworks.com so this is a single stream, write only? ... > I can sustain 850 MB/S throughput from user space with it -- about 5 x > any other FS. On some hardware, I've broken > the 1.25 GB/S (gigabyte/second) windows with it. and you're saying it scales to much higher multi-spindle single-machine throughput. cool. i'd love to see a whitepaper, or failing that, have an off-list discussion of your approach and the various kernel limitations you ran up against in testing. i don't suppose they invited you to the Kernel Summit to talk about it, heh. NATE