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Mon, 6 Jul 2020 12:45:34 +0000 From: Chris Mason To: Willy Tarreau CC: Dan Williams , "torvalds@linux-foundation.org" , Jonathan Corbet , Kees Cook , Chris Mason , Greg Kroah-Hartman , "ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" , "tech-board-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" Subject: Re: [PATCH] CodingStyle: Inclusive Terminology Thread-Topic: [PATCH] CodingStyle: Inclusive Terminology Thread-Index: AQHWUkBiuI9YYVhC60GHlqhklDtDWKj4bGSAgAHNCAA= Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 12:45:34 +0000 Message-ID: <798B0FBF-D7A8-4631-8581-5D199DA50FF9@fb.com> References: <159389297140.2210796.13590142254668787525.stgit@dwillia2-desk3.amr.corp.intel.com> <20200705045505.GA2962@1wt.eu> In-Reply-To: <20200705045505.GA2962@1wt.eu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-imapappendstamp: MN2PR15MB3582.namprd15.prod.outlook.com (15.20.3153.029) x-mailer: MailMate (1.13.1r5671) authentication-results: 1wt.eu; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;1wt.eu; 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x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: kDbzzc8iNcH+FXfEvvSblj3lP9V8EymvjeE+TNV+SL2syKjxxpqDRQ6Wxgg0Q4L+8Ku+MOahdlvlEHRatdxaaPb1YyPMlw3hzvTBU0inZSPIDWqpOc3gUkKafzyJcfJ+uonSncwQwValp75Ub1NpSmIu0lASOqbkMDxmRo1cXTLFHmUahiWIB3AL/RhRutmY5qbZOqaEfRJWPj7SWlZ5XcQaQ8QqtUsll1e/YsMdFdG4BqWh/4HINRqjWuxAR6zVEhVwhKZyfSfmqCqWTHM/jboKXciNGZbdL8nMhQGrd+TntetbCorJ3P6SfsN+3eg6HDpYvgneAuquP2g4lLzEZfUV1nY1ioLR5AjS9ddsIsiESPuQuuPBwP6etiuU5U1+IA1WuPwmRudZIBhXOULcjIrcMOx4Y8QNMFUF4PE+fgARZLVNQP7MMb2/ASNVXk5CXlCyehxmtbJyTvp34EZu2nsPgs32TSmB9AyEqybP3sI= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <35CE96BBE7FF8F4191DDC042AA4A4E83@fb.onmicrosoft.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR15MB3582.namprd15.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 10a04e3f-343c-4625-ad67-08d821aa79ea X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Jul 2020 12:45:34.5355 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 8ae927fe-1255-47a7-a2af-5f3a069daaa2 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: OO6EAFYWFDtmgv9a2uIuSVTV1TqN9RQ6N7UuQf9H5/bRkgeKDcOu93A+4x1Lm79h X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR1501MB4131 X-OriginatorOrg: fb.com X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.235,18.0.687 definitions=2020-07-06_09:2020-07-06,2020-07-06 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=fb_default_notspam policy=fb_default score=0 suspectscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 clxscore=1011 priorityscore=1501 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 cotscore=-2147483648 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2004280000 definitions=main-2007060098 X-FB-Internal: deliver Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On 5 Jul 2020, at 0:55, Willy Tarreau wrote:=0A= =0A= > On Sat, Jul 04, 2020 at 01:02:51PM -0700, Dan Williams wrote:=0A= >> +Non-inclusive terminology has that same distracting effect which is =0A= >> why=0A= >> +it is a style issue for Linux, it injures developer efficiency.=0A= >=0A= > I'm personally thinking that for a non-native speaker it's already=0A= > difficult to find the best term to describe something, but having to=0A= > apply an extra level of filtering on the found words to figure whether=0A= > they are allowed by the language police is even more difficult.=0A= =0A= Since our discussions are public, we=92ve always had to deal with =0A= comments from people outside the community on a range of topics. But =0A= inside the kernel, it=92s just a group of developers trying to help each = =0A= other produce the best quality of code. We=92ve got a long history =0A= together and in general I think we=92re pretty good at assuming good =0A= intent.=0A= =0A= > *This*=0A= > injures developers efficiency. What could improve developers =0A= > efficiency=0A= > is to take care of removing *all* idiomatic or cultural words then. =0A= > For=0A= > example I've been participating to projects using the term =0A= > "blueprint",=0A= > I didn't understand what that meant. It was once explained to me and=0A= > given that it had no logical reason for being called this way, I now=0A= > forgot. If we follow your reasoning, Such words should be banned for=0A= > exactly the same reasons. Same for colors that probably don't mean=0A= > anything to those born blind.=0A= >=0A= > For example if in my local culture we eat tomatoes at starters and=0A= > apples for dessert, it could be convenient for me to use "tomato" and=0A= > "apple" as list elements to name the pointers leading to the beginning=0A= > and the end of the list, and it might sound obvious to many people, =0A= > but=0A= > not at all for many others.=0A= >=0A= > Maybe instead of providing an explicit list of a few words it should=0A= > simply say that terms that take their roots in the non-technical world=0A= > and whose meaning can only be understood based on history or local=0A= > culture ought to be avoided, because *that* actually is the real=0A= > root cause of the problem you're trying to address.=0A= =0A= I=92d definitely agree that it=92s a good goal to keep out non-technical = =0A= terms. Even though we already try, every subsystem has its own set of =0A= patterns that reflect the most frequent contributors.=0A= =0A= -chris=