From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B35C2C46475 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 22:12:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E3F42083E for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 22:12:39 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 4E3F42083E Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=brown.name Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1727487AbeJZGrC (ORCPT ); Fri, 26 Oct 2018 02:47:02 -0400 Received: from mx2.suse.de ([195.135.220.15]:33518 "EHLO mx1.suse.de" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-FAIL) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726348AbeJZGrC (ORCPT ); Fri, 26 Oct 2018 02:47:02 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at test-mx.suse.de Received: from relay2.suse.de (unknown [195.135.220.254]) by mx1.suse.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77E19B0CD; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 22:12:33 +0000 (UTC) From: NeilBrown To: esr@thyrsus.com, "Theodore Y. Ts'o" , Greg Kroah-Hartman , visionsofalice@redchan.it, linux-kernel , rms@gnu.org, bruce@perens.com, moglen@columbia.edu, bkuhn@sfconservancy.org, editor@lwn.net, Laura Abbott , Linus Torvalds , ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org, Thomas Gleixner , Olof Johansson , Chris Mason , Mishi Choudhary , linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 09:12:21 +1100 Subject: Re: The linux devs can rescind their license grant. In-Reply-To: <20181025214123.GA2448@thyrsus.com> References: <20181020134908.GA32218@kroah.com> <87y3ar80ac.fsf@notabene.neil.brown.name> <185b786a2bd6e8d527dca161dc42e4f1@redchan.it> <20181025081911.GB11343@kroah.com> <20181025193901.GD26403@thyrsus.com> <20181025204718.GB25649@thunk.org> <20181025214123.GA2448@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: <87a7n165h6.fsf@notabene.neil.brown.name> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Oct 25 2018, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > Theodore Y. Ts'o : >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 03:39:01PM -0400, Eric S. Raymond wrote: >> > Under Jacobsen vs. Katzer (535 f 3d 1373 fed cir 2008) authors of >> > GPLed software have a specific right to relief (including injunctive >> > relief) against misappropriation of their software. That ruling (which >> > was the case of first impression on the binding status of the GPL) >> > reputational damage is *specifically* recognized as grounds for relief. >>=20 >> I've read the legal briefs, and I'm pretty sure they don't say what >> you are claiming they say. Yes, I'm not a lawyer --- but that's OK >> --- neither are you. > > How much are you willing to gamble on not being wrong? > >> The *vast* majority of the "anti-CoC dissidents" who have been >> advancing this argument, have, as near as I can tell, little or no >> copyright ownership in the kernel. > > I do not have any facts with which to dispute this specific claim. > However, I do notice that a significant number of long-time > contributors have put themselves in the anti-CoC camp. I note Al Viro > as a recent example. I think you are blurring two groups here. Ted describes "anti-CoC dissidents" as people who are advancing an argument about rescinding their license. This is a smaller groups than the "ant-CoC camp" who don't really like the CoC. I suspect is it is a much smaller group when restricting to actual copyright holders. I am against the CoC as it stands, but rescinding any license is such an enormous over-reaction, I find the concept laughable. NeilBrown > > Even supposing you are right about most of the anti-Coc people being > outsiders, a tiny minority of people with a genuine IP stake could do a > lot of damage. I ask again: how much are you willing to gamble on not > being wrong? > > I definitely do not want to see the kind of explosion we could witness. > I think you are making it more likely rather than less by appearing > high-handed and dismissive. Because, whatever the merits of the > CoC itself, there has been a process failure here. It doesn't look > good to be defending that failure. > > A change like the CoC adoption was not a good thing to do without > proper public notice, discussion, and consensus-building *beforehand*. > This was an unforced error on the part of the leadership group; > please, *please* don't compound it by digging in around the error. Do > you really think you're going to win hearts and minds among insider > dissidents - people with a genuine stake - by dismissing the > opposition as a troll job? > > Instead of declaiming about "trolls", how about we fix the process > failure instead? > --=20 > Eric S. Raymond > > My work is funded by the Internet Civil Engineering Institute: https://ic= ei.org > Please visit their site and donate: the civilization you save might be yo= ur own. --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEG8Yp69OQ2HB7X0l6Oeye3VZigbkFAlvSP8UACgkQOeye3VZi gbnBgg//YXyTrRXBoJyJ2fTlvsnSfCK5x4sGdV3Ni/kQ/XVL7A9SjO5ZGgWrZNc3 HYkAq7Gq4eYBYPB7guAEhnMsX8ctjUf/ryYn/IkXmJ7YrSdzzZrME0q2TVDjoDnZ 27+l5avDrJVdrUIOYKZOdati2mC4s7eZRegAodIa6JPbYYkQOvckWDqLb0DzFHMj bZSWIevDbEG3VOOirAnY/6pUIJEseYyC5mmHefIi3kM1lP6Tm1ANEuhn0xj7yy4d 0JfdpdaZH7iwABC672nOFRACgx+u7eHVUCRwHjPrkGIEYCkYlpOCe3QFlqZIPJgw 03vhgQLsdKrm2gT44usGYI2IXN5IlQ7sv8fULc0BbPLnLT7O94Js5hGpyrbiINnq 7DS04c9EZC8pSx3+rEqoFmqKo0MLJcaaBOXiIkPX4njeTbkxPgnyB7Xp/7HWycrj yqKTYmFCG6cFNDz/O7YVT1baCpNF4I8iYpRIXvSCisC/pXx2ZIYDfZwuBYWcbqDc +f+vl8/ifdLB2pLLex3gTN+soBFQVX0V+0nXeWFqtkdaT2IML4uig+J7b1t94a56 4XLNGLdS3q1J62hk8T3GJsZ8YUSBUli91Ux2v0Do18CLjM5gParf4glZwavl9L0Y tt8kooluX5EMsCRcqsYWzcbCyTZJ2r3ek7V+R3ZAcnvW7n1HqQ4= =0+s7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--