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From: Michael Ellerman <mpe@ellerman.id.au>
To: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: Paul McKenney <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>,
	andrea.parri@amarulasolutions.com,
	Will Deacon <will.deacon@arm.com>,
	Akira Yokosawa <akiyks@gmail.com>,
	Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@gmail.com>,
	Daniel Lustig <dlustig@nvidia.com>,
	David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	Jade Alglave <j.alglave@ucl.ac.uk>,
	Luc Maranget <luc.maranget@inria.fr>,
	Nick Piggin <npiggin@gmail.com>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2] tools/memory-model: Add extra ordering for locks and remove it for ordinary release/acquire
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 23:15:26 +1000
Message-ID: <87tvp3xonl.fsf@concordia.ellerman.id.au> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20180713110851.GY2494@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net>

Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> writes:

> On Thu, Jul 12, 2018 at 11:10:58AM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
>> On Thu, Jul 12, 2018 at 11:05 AM Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > The locking pattern is fairly simple and shows where RCpc comes apart
>> > from expectation real nice.
>> 
>> So who does RCpc right now for the unlock-lock sequence? Somebody
>> mentioned powerpc. Anybody else?
>
> RISC-V followed, because the LKMM currently states it is allowed, in
> fact LKMM is currently weaker than even PowerPC, which is what this
> current discussion is about.
>
> A number of people, including myself, are arguing for stronger lock
> ordering (RCsc) but getting the LKMM to be at least as strong as Power
> (RCtsc as coined by Daniel) which disallows full RCpc.
>
>> How nasty would be be to make powerpc conform? I will always advocate
>> tighter locking and ordering rules over looser ones..
>
> mpe did a micro-bench a little while ago:
>
>   http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1804.0/01990.html
>
> which says 30% more expensive for uncontended lock+unlock. Which I admit
> is fairly yuck. No macro bench results though.

I reran some numbers today with some slightly updated tests.

It varies quite a bit across machines and CPU revisions.

On one I get:

Lock/Unlock    Time             Time %    Total Cycles     Cycles  Cycles Delta
lwsync/lwsync   79,290,859,955  100.0 %   290,160,065,087  145     -
lwsync/sync    104,903,703,237  132.3 %   383,966,199,430  192     47

Another:

Lock/Unlock    Time             Time %    Total Cycles     Cycles  Cycles Delta
lwsync/lwsync  71,662,395,722   100.0 %   252,403,777,715  126     -
lwsync/sync    84,932,987,977   118.5 %   299,141,951,285  150     23


So 18-32% slower, or 23-47 cycles.

Next week I can do some macro benchmarks, to see if it's actually
detectable at all.

The other question is how they behave on a heavily loaded system.


My personal preference would be to switch to sync, we don't want to be
the only arch finding (or not finding!) exotic ordering bugs.

But we'd also rather not make our slow locks any slower than they have
to be.

cheers

  reply index

Thread overview: 84+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-07-09 20:01 Alan Stern
2018-07-09 21:45 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-10 13:57   ` Alan Stern
2018-07-10 16:25     ` Paul E. McKenney
     [not found]       ` <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.1807101416390.1449-100000@iolanthe.rowland.org>
2018-07-10 19:58         ` [PATCH v3] " Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-10 20:24           ` Alan Stern
2018-07-10 20:31             ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-11  9:43         ` Will Deacon
2018-07-11 15:42           ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-11 16:17             ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-11 18:03               ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-11 16:34           ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-11 18:10             ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-10  9:38 ` [PATCH v2] " Andrea Parri
2018-07-10 14:48   ` Alan Stern
2018-07-10 15:24     ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-10 15:34       ` Alan Stern
2018-07-10 23:14         ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-11  9:43   ` Will Deacon
2018-07-11 12:34     ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-11 12:54       ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-11 15:57       ` Will Deacon
2018-07-11 16:28         ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-11 17:00         ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-11 17:50           ` Daniel Lustig
2018-07-12  8:34             ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-12  9:29             ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-12  7:40       ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-12  9:34         ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-12  9:45           ` Will Deacon
2018-07-13  2:17             ` Daniel Lustig
2018-07-12 11:52         ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-12 12:01           ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-12 12:11             ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-12 13:48           ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-12 16:19             ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-12 17:04             ` Alan Stern
2018-07-12 17:14               ` Will Deacon
2018-07-12 17:28               ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-12 18:05                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-12 18:10                   ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-12 19:52                     ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-12 20:24                       ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-13  2:05                     ` Daniel Lustig
2018-07-13  4:03                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-13  9:07                       ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-13  9:35                         ` Will Deacon
2018-07-13 17:16                           ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-13 19:06                             ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-14  1:51                               ` Alan Stern
2018-07-14  2:58                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-16  2:31                                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-13 11:08                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-13 13:15                       ` Michael Ellerman [this message]
2018-07-13 16:42                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-13 19:56                           ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-16 14:40                           ` Michael Ellerman
2018-07-16 19:01                             ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-16 19:30                             ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-17 14:45                               ` Michael Ellerman
2018-07-17 16:19                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-17 18:33                                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-17 18:42                                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-17 19:40                                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-17 19:47                                       ` Alan Stern
2018-07-17 18:44                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-17 18:49                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-17 19:42                                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-17 19:37                                       ` Alan Stern
2018-07-17 20:13                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-17 19:38                                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-17 19:40                                     ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-17 19:52                                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-18 12:31                                   ` Michael Ellerman
2018-07-18 13:16                             ` Michael Ellerman
2018-07-12 17:52               ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-12 20:43                 ` Alan Stern
2018-07-12 21:13                   ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-12 21:23                     ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-12 18:33               ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-12 17:45             ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-10 16:56 ` Daniel Lustig
     [not found]   ` <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.1807101315140.1449-100000@iolanthe.rowland.org>
2018-07-10 23:31     ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-11 14:19       ` Alan Stern

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