From: Jani Nikula <jani.nikula@linux.intel.com>
To: Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>
Cc: Mauro Carvalho Chehab <mchehab+samsung@kernel.org>,
Linux Doc Mailing List <linux-doc@vger.kernel.org>,
Mauro Carvalho Chehab <mchehab@s-opensource.com>,
Mauro Carvalho Chehab <mchehab@infradead.org>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 12/14] doc-rst: add ABI documentation to the admin-guide book
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 16:50:38 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87y320tj69.fsf@intel.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20190617125438.GA18554@kroah.com>
On Mon, 17 Jun 2019, Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 03:36:17PM +0300, Jani Nikula wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019, Mauro Carvalho Chehab <mchehab+samsung@kernel.org> wrote:
>> > Em Fri, 14 Jun 2019 16:06:03 +0200
>> > Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> escreveu:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 04:42:20PM +0300, Jani Nikula wrote:
>> >> > 2) Have the python extension read the ABI files directly, without an
>> >> > extra pipeline.
>> >>
>> >> He who writes the script, get's to dictate the language of the script :)
>>
>> The point is, it's an extension to a python based tool, written in perl,
>> using pipes for communication, and losing any advantages of integrating
>> with the tool it's extending.
>>
>> I doubt you'd want to see system() to be used to subsequently extend the
>> perl tool.
>>
>> I think it's just sad to see the documentation system slowly drift
>> further away from the ideals we had, and towards the old ways we worked
>> so hard to fix.
>
> What are those ideals?
For example, have a single coherent system, instead of a fragile pipe
with each stage written in a different language, each having its own
idiosynchracies, each step losing something in translation.
Have a system that a normal developer can actually look at and
understand. It didn't use to be that way.
> I thought the goal was to be able to write documentation in a as much
> as a normal text file as possible and have automation turn those files
> into "pretty" documentation that we can all use.
>
> And I think that fits with the way this patch set goes, right? We are
> not on a quest for purity of scripts to generate the documentation at
> the expense of having to force hundreds, or thousands, of developers to
> change their ways, or to force a "flag day" conversion of existing
> documentation resulting in a huge merge mess.
Fair enough, let's dismiss the thought of changing the ABI files. But I
never meant that would somehow be for the "purity of scripts", or that
those two would somehow be at odds here.
> So, we are stuck with the current structure that I totally made up for
> Documentation/ABI/. Turns out it is almost parsable, as Mauro's tool
> shows. His tool also validates the existing text, which is great, and
> has caused fixes for it.
>
> If someone wants to write that tool in some other language, like python,
> wonderful, I have no objection, but as it is, this is a useful tool
> already, allowing us to validate, and search, existing documentation
> entries that we have never been able to do before. It also provides an
> output that can be turned into pretty html/pdf/whatever files by other
> tools in the pipeline, a totally bonus benefit.
>
> So what is going backwards here?
>
> Maybe the processing pipeline isn't as nice as you would like, but
> remember to view this from a normal developer's point of view, not a
> documentation pipeline developer's point of view please.
>
> So, in short, my requirements are:
> - keep Documentation/ABI/ file formats as close as possible to
> what we have today, preventing any flag-day issues or merge
> problems
> - be able to query and validate Documentation/ABI/
> - be able to turn Documentation/ABI into pretty documentation.
>
> If you object to the mechanics of the last requirement here, I don't
> object either, provide something else that works better. But don't
> throw away the whole thing just because you don't like how things are
> hooked up here.
>
> I'm going to go apply most of the rest of these patches to my
> driver-core tree, stopping at the "hook it up to the kernel
> documentation" point. Is that ok?
I'll leave it all up to Jon's discretion; I trust he'll understand my
concerns. I have no authority beyond the opinion I've voiced here
anyway.
BR,
Jani.
--
Jani Nikula, Intel Open Source Graphics Center
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-06-17 13:47 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 63+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-06-14 2:04 [PATCH 00/14] Add support to generate ABI documentation at admin-guide Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-14 2:04 ` [PATCH 01/14] ABI: fix some syntax issues at the ABI database Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-14 7:20 ` Andrew Donnellan
2019-06-14 16:16 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-06-14 8:30 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2019-06-14 2:04 ` [PATCH 02/14] ABI: sysfs-driver-hid: the "What" field doesn't parse fine Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-14 2:04 ` [PATCH 03/14] ABI: sysfs-class-uwb_rc: remove a duplicated incomplete entry Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-14 2:04 ` [PATCH 04/14] ABI: better identificate tables Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-19 12:51 ` Johan Hovold
2019-06-19 13:56 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-19 15:02 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-06-19 16:14 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-20 14:27 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-21 7:21 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-06-21 9:49 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-20 12:01 ` Johan Hovold
2019-06-20 12:54 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-06-20 14:20 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-20 16:29 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-06-20 17:16 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-20 17:55 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-06-14 2:04 ` [PATCH 05/14] scripts: add an script to parse the ABI files Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-14 13:31 ` Jani Nikula
2019-06-14 13:39 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-06-14 13:58 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-14 14:00 ` Jani Nikula
2019-06-14 14:14 ` Jonathan Corbet
2019-06-14 16:24 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-06-14 2:04 ` [PATCH 06/14] scripts/get_abi.pl: parse files with text at beginning Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-14 2:04 ` [PATCH 07/14] scripts/get_abi.pl: avoid use literal blocks when not needed Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-14 2:04 ` [PATCH 08/14] scripts/get_abi.pl: split label naming from xref logic Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-14 2:04 ` [PATCH 09/14] scripts/get_abi.pl: add support for searching for ABI symbols Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-14 2:04 ` [PATCH 10/14] scripts/get_abi.pl: represent what in tables Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-14 2:04 ` [PATCH 11/14] scripts/get_abi.pl: fix parse issues with some files Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-14 2:04 ` [PATCH 12/14] doc-rst: add ABI documentation to the admin-guide book Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-14 13:42 ` Jani Nikula
2019-06-14 14:06 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-06-14 15:27 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-17 12:36 ` Jani Nikula
2019-06-17 12:54 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-06-17 13:48 ` Jonathan Corbet
2019-06-17 13:50 ` Jani Nikula [this message]
2019-06-17 13:51 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-18 8:47 ` Jani Nikula
2019-06-19 16:37 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-21 14:27 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-27 9:48 ` Jani Nikula
2019-06-27 10:52 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-14 14:10 ` Markus Heiser
2019-06-14 14:15 ` Jonathan Corbet
2019-06-16 16:04 ` Markus Heiser
2019-06-17 9:11 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-17 16:31 ` Markus Heiser
2019-06-14 2:04 ` [PATCH 13/14] sphinx/kernel_abi.py: make it compatible with Sphinx 1.7+ Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-14 2:04 ` [PATCH 14/14] docs: sphinx/kernel_abi.py: fix UTF-8 support Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-14 16:18 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-06-14 16:25 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-15 6:16 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-06-16 15:43 ` Markus Heiser
2019-06-17 9:16 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-17 13:56 ` Jonathan Corbet
2019-06-17 15:55 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2019-06-14 16:20 ` [PATCH 00/14] Add support to generate ABI documentation at admin-guide Greg Kroah-Hartman
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