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From: Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>
To: Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
	Sami Tolvanen <samitolvanen@google.com>,
	the arch/x86 maintainers <x86@kernel.org>
Cc: Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>,
	Josh Poimboeuf <jpoimboe@redhat.com>,
	"Peter Zijlstra (Intel)" <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Nathan Chancellor <nathan@kernel.org>,
	Nick Desaulniers <ndesaulniers@google.com>,
	Sedat Dilek <sedat.dilek@gmail.com>,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	llvm@lists.linux.dev
Subject: Re: [PATCH v5 03/15] linkage: Add DECLARE_NOT_CALLED_FROM_C
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2021 19:57:30 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87zgra41dh.ffs@tglx> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <8735p25llh.ffs@tglx>

On Fri, Oct 15 2021 at 17:55, Thomas Gleixner wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 14 2021 at 19:51, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 13, 2021, at 11:16 AM, Sami Tolvanen wrote:
> That still tells me:
>
>     1) This is a function
>     
>     2) It has a regular argument which is expected to be in RDI
>
> which even allows to do analyis of e.g. the alternative call which
> invokes that function.
>
> DECLARE_NOT_CALLED_FROM_C(clear_page_erms);
>
> loses these properties and IMO it's a tasteless hack.

Look:

SYSCALL_DEFINE2(set_robust_list, struct robust_list_head __user *, head,
                size_t, len)

Not beautiful, but it gives the information which is needed and it tells
me clearly what this is about. While the above lumps everything together
whatever it is.

Having __bikeshedme would allow to do:

   __hardware_call
   __xenhv_call
   __inline_asm_call

or such, which clearly tells how the function should be used and it can
even be validated by tooling.

You could to that with macros as well, but thats not what you offered.

Seriously, if you want to sell me that stuff, then you really should
offer me something which has a value on its own and makes it palatable
to me. That's not something new. See:

  https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/alpine.LFD.2.00.1001251002430.3574@localhost.localdomain/

That said, I still want to have a coherent technical explanation why the
compiler people cannot come up with a sensible annotation for these
things.

I'm tired of this attitude, that they add features and then ask us to
make our code more ugly.

It's not a well hidden secret that the kernel uses these kind of
constructs. So why on earth can't they be bothered to think about these
things upfront and offer us something nice and useful?

Thanks,

        tglx








  parent reply	other threads:[~2021-10-15 17:57 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 117+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-10-13 18:16 [PATCH v5 00/15] x86: Add support for Clang CFI Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-13 18:16 ` [PATCH v5 01/15] objtool: Add CONFIG_CFI_CLANG support Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-13 18:59   ` Kees Cook
2021-10-14  0:44   ` Josh Poimboeuf
2021-10-14 10:22   ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-10-14 19:20     ` Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-13 18:16 ` [PATCH v5 02/15] objtool: Add ASM_STACK_FRAME_NON_STANDARD Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-13 18:59   ` Kees Cook
2021-10-13 18:16 ` [PATCH v5 03/15] linkage: Add DECLARE_NOT_CALLED_FROM_C Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-13 19:00   ` Kees Cook
2021-10-15  2:51   ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-10-15 15:35     ` Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-15 15:55     ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-10-15 16:22       ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-10-15 16:47         ` Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-15 17:34           ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-10-15 17:57       ` Thomas Gleixner [this message]
2021-10-15 18:42         ` Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-15 19:35           ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-10-15 20:37             ` Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-16 21:12               ` Josh Poimboeuf
2021-10-18 17:08                 ` Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-15 22:17           ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-10-16 21:16             ` Josh Poimboeuf
2021-10-13 18:16 ` [PATCH v5 04/15] cfi: Add DEFINE_CFI_IMMEDIATE_RETURN_STUB Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-13 19:02   ` Kees Cook
2021-10-13 18:16 ` [PATCH v5 05/15] tracepoint: Exclude tp_stub_func from CFI checking Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-13 19:03   ` Kees Cook
2021-10-13 19:20   ` Steven Rostedt
2021-10-13 18:16 ` [PATCH v5 06/15] ftrace: Use an opaque type for functions not callable from C Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-13 19:04   ` Kees Cook
2021-10-13 19:20   ` Steven Rostedt
2021-10-13 18:16 ` [PATCH v5 07/15] lkdtm: Disable UNSET_SMEP with CFI Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-13 18:16 ` [PATCH v5 08/15] lkdtm: Use an opaque type for lkdtm_rodata_do_nothing Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-13 18:16 ` [PATCH v5 09/15] x86: Use an opaque type for functions not callable from C Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-14 11:21   ` Borislav Petkov
2021-10-14 16:07     ` Kees Cook
2021-10-14 17:31       ` Borislav Petkov
2021-10-14 18:24         ` Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-14 19:00           ` Nick Desaulniers
2021-10-14 18:47         ` Kees Cook
2021-10-14 18:52           ` Steven Rostedt
2021-10-14 19:06             ` Josh Poimboeuf
2021-10-13 18:16 ` [PATCH v5 10/15] x86/purgatory: Disable CFI Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-13 19:05   ` Kees Cook
2021-10-13 18:16 ` [PATCH v5 11/15] x86, relocs: Ignore __typeid__ relocations Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-13 18:16 ` [PATCH v5 12/15] x86, module: " Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-13 18:55   ` Kees Cook
2021-10-13 18:16 ` [PATCH v5 13/15] x86, cpu: Use LTO for cpu.c with CFI Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-13 18:16 ` [PATCH v5 14/15] x86, kprobes: Fix optprobe_template_func type mismatch Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-13 18:16 ` [PATCH v5 15/15] x86, build: Allow CONFIG_CFI_CLANG to be selected Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-13 18:56   ` Kees Cook
2021-10-13 19:07 ` [PATCH v5 00/15] x86: Add support for Clang CFI Kees Cook
2021-10-19 10:06 ` Alexander Lobakin
2021-10-19 15:40   ` Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-21 10:27 ` Alexander Lobakin
2021-10-26 20:16 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-10-27 10:02   ` David Laight
2021-10-27 10:17     ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-10-27 12:05   ` Mark Rutland
2021-10-27 12:22     ` Ard Biesheuvel
2021-10-27 12:48       ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-10-27 13:04         ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-10-27 13:30           ` Ard Biesheuvel
2021-10-27 14:03             ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-10-27 14:18               ` Ard Biesheuvel
2021-10-27 14:36                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-10-27 15:50                 ` Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-27 15:55                   ` Ard Biesheuvel
2021-10-29 20:03                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-10-30  7:47                     ` [PATCH] static_call,x86: Robustify trampoline patching Peter Zijlstra
2021-10-30  8:16                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-11-02 17:35                         ` Kees Cook
2021-11-02 18:15                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-11-15 13:09                         ` Rasmus Villemoes
2021-10-30 17:19                       ` Ard Biesheuvel
2021-10-30 18:02                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-10-30 18:55                           ` Ard Biesheuvel
2021-10-31 16:24                             ` Ard Biesheuvel
2021-10-31 16:39                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-10-31 16:44                                 ` Ard Biesheuvel
2021-10-31 20:09                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-10-31 20:21                                     ` Ard Biesheuvel
2021-10-31 20:44                                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-10-31 23:36                                         ` Ard Biesheuvel
2021-11-01  9:01                                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-11-01  9:36                                             ` David Laight
2021-11-01 14:14                                             ` Ard Biesheuvel
2021-11-02 12:57                                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-11-02 15:15                                                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-11-02 17:44                                                   ` Ard Biesheuvel
2021-11-02 18:14                                                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-11-02 18:17                                                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-11-02 18:18                                                       ` Ard Biesheuvel
2021-11-02 21:48                                                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-11-02 18:10                                                 ` Kees Cook
2021-11-02 21:02                                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-11-02 23:13                                                     ` Kees Cook
2021-11-03  0:20                                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-11-03  8:35                                                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-11-03 10:01                                                           ` David Laight
2021-11-03 19:32                                                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-11-02 21:19                                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-11-11 12:15                       ` [tip: locking/urgent] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2021-10-30 19:07                     ` [PATCH v5 00/15] x86: Add support for Clang CFI Sami Tolvanen
2021-10-27 17:11           ` Kees Cook
2021-10-27 21:21             ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-10-27 22:27               ` Kees Cook
2021-10-28 11:09                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-10-28 17:12                   ` Kees Cook
2021-10-28 20:29                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-11-02 17:26                       ` Kees Cook
2021-11-01  4:13                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-10-27 12:46     ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-10-27 12:55     ` David Laight
2021-10-27 13:17       ` Mark Rutland
2021-10-27 21:31         ` David Laight

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