From: "Edgecombe, Rick P" <rick.p.edgecombe@intel.com>
To: "peterz@infradead.org" <peterz@infradead.org>
Cc: "Torvalds, Linus" <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
"keescook@chromium.org" <keescook@chromium.org>,
"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
"fweimer@redhat.com" <fweimer@redhat.com>,
"hjl.tools@gmail.com" <hjl.tools@gmail.com>,
"x86@kernel.org" <x86@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: CET shadow stack app compatibility
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2022 17:04:40 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <883ed1a3f4de8d508c4bc2f504ae4a5c8db19a20.camel@intel.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Y3NfX0zXDIZztwKL@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net>
On Tue, 2022-11-15 at 10:43 +0100, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> CET is two things, ideally we're fully eradicate the term CET, never
> again mention CET, ever. Whoever at Intel decided to push that term
> has
> created so much confusion it's not funny :/
>
> The feature at hand here is backward edge control flow -- or shadow
> stacks (the means to implement this). Be explicit about this, do
> *NOT*
> use CET ever again.
>
> The other thing CET has is forward edge control flow -- or indirect
> branch tracking, this is a completely different and independent
> feature
> and not advertised or implemented here.
>
> These things are obviously related, but since they're two independent
> features there's the endless confusion as to which is actually meant.
>
> (go (re)watch the last plumbers conf talks on the subject -- there's
> always someone who gets is wrong)
>
> The only things that should have CET in their name are the CR4 bit
> and
> the two MSRs, nothing more.
The only other place in the kernel where it has to be that way is the
"control protection" fault handler.
I agree it's confusing, but when you talk about "shadow stacks", a lot
of people don't connect it to the HW feature. Where as they have heard
of CET. So for contexts like this, I thought it was useful to jog
memories. I could put more distance between it... "x86 shadow stacks
(you may have heard of CET)".
>
> ELF bits should not, must not, be called CET. API, not CET, Compiler
> features, also not CET.
So the arch_prctl()s can't be shared between shadow stack and IBT? They
don't have to be, but this is a new thing after a fair amount of
earlier discussion.
>
> (and I know it's too late to eradicate some of it, but please, at
> least
> make sure the kernel doesn't propagate this nonsense).
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-11-15 17:05 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 9+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2022-11-14 23:15 CET shadow stack app compatibility Edgecombe, Rick P
2022-11-15 2:01 ` Linus Torvalds
2022-11-15 7:33 ` Florian Weimer
2022-11-15 16:57 ` Edgecombe, Rick P
2022-12-02 18:48 ` Florian Weimer
2022-12-05 19:02 ` Edgecombe, Rick P
2022-11-15 9:43 ` Peter Zijlstra
2022-11-15 17:04 ` Edgecombe, Rick P [this message]
2022-11-15 18:45 ` Peter Zijlstra
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