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From: Linus Walleij <linus.walleij@linaro.org>
To: Fabian Vogt <fabian@ritter-vogt.de>
Cc: "Daniel Tang" <dt.tangr@gmail.com>,
	"Arnd Bergmann" <arnd@kernel.org>,
	"Baruch Siach" <baruch@tkos.co.il>,
	"Geert Uytterhoeven" <geert+renesas@glider.be>,
	"Neil Armstrong" <narmstrong@baylibre.com>,
	"Viresh Kumar" <viresh.kumar@linaro.org>,
	"Jamie Iles" <jamie@jamieiles.com>,
	"Krzysztof Adamski" <krzysztof.adamski@nokia.com>,
	"Alexander Shiyan" <shc_work@mail.ru>,
	"Michael Ellerman" <mpe@ellerman.id.au>,
	"Russell King - ARM Linux" <linux@armlinux.org.uk>,
	"Wei Xu" <xuwei5@hisilicon.com>,
	"Oleksij Rempel" <o.rempel@pengutronix.de>,
	"Alex Elder" <elder@linaro.org>,
	"Marc Gonzalez" <marc.w.gonzalez@free.fr>,
	"Hans Ulli Kroll" <ulli.kroll@googlemail.com>,
	"Uwe Kleine-König" <u.kleine-koenig@pengutronix.de>,
	"Steven Rostedt" <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	"Vladimir Zapolskiy" <vz@mleia.com>,
	"Lubomir Rintel" <lkundrak@v3.sk>,
	"Koen Vandeputte" <koen.vandeputte@ncentric.com>,
	"Linux ARM" <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>,
	"Barry Song" <song.bao.hua@hisilicon.com>,
	"Thomas Bogendoerfer" <tsbogend@alpha.franken.de>,
	"Yoshinori Sato" <ysato@users.sourceforge.jp>,
	"Linux Kernel Mailing List" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Jonas Jensen" <jonas.jensen@gmail.com>,
	"Hartley Sweeten" <hsweeten@visionengravers.com>,
	"Mark Salter" <msalter@redhat.com>,
	"Shawn Guo" <shawnguo@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Old platforms: bring out your dead
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 22:33:56 +0100
Message-ID: <CACRpkdYaMASWWDTX7hTt+xQnVPA=WTWNFk2eDnTjKoJF=LA7LQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1702853.1557dWfJA4@linux-e202.suse.de>

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 7:16 PM Fabian Vogt <fabian@ritter-vogt.de> wrote:
> Am Samstag, 9. Januar 2021, 23:20:48 CET schrieb Arnd Bergmann:
> > On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 1:06 AM Daniel Tang <dt.tangr@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > * nspire -- added in 2013, no notable changes after 2015
>
> Most of the platform is just the DT sources and some small drivers around it,
> so it's actually fairly low maintenance. So far the migration away from
> panel-simple in 2019
> (https://lore.kernel.org/linux-arm-kernel/20190805085847.25554-1-linus.walleij@linaro.org)
> was the biggest required change so far.

What we're seeing here is actually a port that is:
- Finished
- Has a complete set of working drivers
- Supported
- Just works

I.e. it doesn't see much patches because it is pretty much perfect.

We are so unused to this situation that it can be mistaken for
the device being abandoned.

I think it was Russell who first pointed out that this is actually
the case for a few machines.

> > Would either of you already have a guess for how long it makes
> > sense to update kernels on it?
> >
> > I see that this is one of the more limited platforms with just 32MB
> > of RAM (64MB in case of CX), and kernels only get more bloated over
> > time, so I expect at some point you will be stuck with running old
> > software.
>
> The kernel overhead isn't actually that bad. I just built today's 2ff90100ace8
> and booted it with a busybox-based initrd. free -m reports:
> total used free shared buffers
>    58   12   46      0       0
>
> Relatively speaking, still mostly unused ;-) The stock OS actually uses more!
> With 32MiB, the situation is definitely worse, but still manageable. Should
> that change in the future, dropping just the Classic/CM variants would be a
> possible option, but that still seems far enough away.

64 MB is perfectly fine to run Linux. OpenWrt-type distributions (also
OpenEmbedded/YOCTO) run just fine with that. 32 MB certainly works.
For example this is the Gemini D-Link DNS-313 which is my NAS
and works perfectly on 64MB:

root@DNS-313:~# free -m
              total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
Mem:          56136       21032       28612           0        6492       23812
Swap:        131128        1280      129848

Not even using the fallback swap.

I can add that at the time it is syncing a backup AND playing back
a 1080p movie over SMB. The trick is using ksmbd rather than
Samba. ksmbd is much less memory-intensive.

I like to use this device for NAS since it is good at I/O, stable,
maintained by myself and JustWorks(TM).

Yours,
Linus Walleij

  parent reply index

Thread overview: 121+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-01-08 22:55 Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-08 23:32 ` Steven Rostedt
2021-01-09 22:04   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-08 23:44 ` Thomas Bogendoerfer
2021-01-09  0:16 ` Linus Walleij
2021-01-09 17:32   ` Florian Fainelli
2021-01-09 21:59   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-09  5:56 ` Willy Tarreau
2021-01-09 21:52   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10  6:21     ` Willy Tarreau
2021-01-10 10:44       ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-11  9:50     ` David Laight
2021-01-13 10:27       ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-13 12:02         ` Linus Walleij
2021-01-13 12:17           ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-13 12:21             ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-15  0:03               ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2021-01-15  0:24                 ` William Breathitt Gray
2021-01-15  8:59                   ` David Laight
2021-01-13 12:30           ` William Breathitt Gray
2021-01-13 12:56             ` William Breathitt Gray
2021-01-13 13:44           ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-02-04 21:01         ` Pavel Machek
2021-02-05  9:13           ` David Laight
2021-02-05  9:29             ` Pavel Machek
2021-01-09 17:34 ` Florian Fainelli
2021-01-09 21:18   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-09 17:43 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-09 21:34   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 20:09     ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-09 20:19 ` Baruch Siach
2021-01-09 21:19   ` Arnd Bergmann
     [not found] ` <67171E13-6786-4B44-A8C2-3302963B055F@gmail.com>
2021-01-09 22:20   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10 18:12     ` Fabian Vogt
2021-01-10 19:20       ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10 21:33       ` Linus Walleij [this message]
2021-01-11  0:33         ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-11 12:32           ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 12:36             ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-09 23:12 ` Andrew Lunn
2021-01-10  8:45   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10 16:46     ` Andrew Lunn
2021-01-10 17:27       ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10 19:51         ` Andrew Lunn
2021-01-10 15:51 ` Neil Armstrong
2021-01-10 15:56   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10 17:35 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-10 21:46   ` Sam Ravnborg
2021-01-11  8:05     ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-11 14:55       ` chase rayfield
2021-01-12  0:26         ` Rob Landley
2021-01-12  0:50           ` chase rayfield
2021-01-12 14:37         ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-11 18:09     ` Rob Landley
2021-01-11 15:04   ` Gerhard Pircher
2021-01-12 14:44     ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-12 22:46       ` Linus Walleij
2021-01-13  8:09         ` Rob Landley
2021-01-13  8:21           ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-13 13:25             ` Rob Landley
2021-01-13 12:02           ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-13  8:15         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-13 10:39         ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-14  3:54           ` New platforms: bring out your dead, was " Finn Thain
2021-01-14  9:41         ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-14  9:48           ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-14 21:21           ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-14 22:54             ` Undesirable code, was Re: Old platforms etc Finn Thain
2021-01-14 23:09             ` Old platforms: bring out your dead Max Filippov
2021-01-15  8:31               ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-13  0:12       ` Old platforms never die, was " Finn Thain
2021-01-16  6:54         ` Rob Landley
2021-01-16 23:22           ` Finn Thain
2021-01-13 11:47       ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-11  1:39 ` Daniel Palmer
2021-01-11  9:15   ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-11  9:20     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11  9:26       ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-11  9:36         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11  9:50           ` Greg Ungerer
2021-01-11  9:42     ` Daniel Palmer
2021-01-11 10:13   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11  8:19 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11  8:59   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11  9:16     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11 10:28       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11 10:37         ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11  9:40     ` Thomas Bogendoerfer
2021-01-11 10:34       ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11  8:40 ` efm32 is dead [Was: Old platforms: bring out your dead] Uwe Kleine-König
2021-01-11 11:10 ` Old platforms: bring out your dead Viresh Kumar
2021-01-11 19:59   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 21:15     ` Mattias Wallin
2021-01-11 21:47       ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 13:13 ` Marc Gonzalez
2021-01-11 17:29   ` Måns Rullgård
2021-01-11 21:50     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-12  8:23       ` Marc Gonzalez
2021-01-11 14:22 ` Mark Salter
2021-01-11 15:00   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 14:44 ` Alexander Shiyan
2021-01-11 14:58   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 16:23 ` Sylvain Lemieux
2021-01-11 22:17   ` Alexandre Belloni
2021-01-11 19:58 ` Thomas Petazzoni
2021-01-11 20:10   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 20:25 ` Song Bao Hua (Barry Song)
2021-01-12  8:41   ` Marc Gonzalez
2021-01-13 10:30 ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-13 11:02   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-13 16:14 ` [v2] " Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-13 19:00   ` Krzysztof Hałasa
2021-01-14  8:51     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-15  7:08   ` Wei Xu
2021-01-15  9:26     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-15 11:09       ` Leizhen (ThunderTown)
2021-01-15 12:04         ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-18 10:46           ` Wei Xu
2021-01-13 22:27 ` Richard Z
2021-02-05 13:37 ` Alexander Lobakin
2021-01-12  2:05 tedheadster

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