From: Paul Moore <paul@paul-moore.com>
To: Steve Grubb <sgrubb@redhat.com>
Cc: Richard Guy Briggs <rgb@redhat.com>,
containers@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-api@vger.kernel.org,
Linux-Audit Mailing List <linux-audit@redhat.com>,
linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
netdev@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org,
omosnace@redhat.com, dhowells@redhat.com, simo@redhat.com,
Eric Paris <eparis@parisplace.org>,
Serge Hallyn <serge@hallyn.com>,
ebiederm@xmission.com, nhorman@tuxdriver.com,
Dan Walsh <dwalsh@redhat.com>,
mpatel@redhat.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH ghak90 V7 20/21] audit: add capcontid to set contid outside init_user_ns
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2019 19:37:47 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAHC9VhQ6Jq5kfrBZ21t9oFR9pYe5gxE2FxLPq27PcSCz4oFauA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3677995.NTHC7m0fHc@x2>
On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 10:51 AM Steve Grubb <sgrubb@redhat.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 6:03:20 PM EDT Richard Guy Briggs wrote:
> > > Also, for the record, removing the audit loginuid from procfs is not
> > > something to take lightly, if at all; like it or not, it's part of the
> > > kernel API.
>
> It can also be used by tools to iterate processes related to one user or
> session. I use this in my Intrusion Prevention System which will land in
> audit user space at some point in the future.
Let's try to stay focused on the audit container ID functionality; I
fear if we start bringing in other unrelated issues we are never going
to land these patches.
> > Oh, I'm quite aware of how important this change is and it was discussed
> > with Steve Grubb who saw the concern and value of considering such a
> > disruptive change.
>
> Actually, I advocated for syscall. I think the gist of Eric's idea was that /
> proc is the intersection of many nasty problems. By relying on it, you can't
> simplify the API to reduce the complexity.
I guess complexity is relative in a sense, but reading and writing a
number from a file in procfs seems awfully simple to me.
> Almost no program actually needs
> access to /proc. ps does. But almost everything else is happy without it. For
> example, when you setup chroot jails, you may have to add /dev/random or /
> dev/null, but almost never /proc. What does force you to add /proc is any
> entry point daemon like sshd because it needs to set the loginuid. If we
> switch away from /proc, then sshd or crond will no longer /require/ procfs to
> be available which again simplifies the system design.
It's not that simple, there are plenty of container use cases beyond
ps which require procfs:
Most LSM aware applications require procfs to view and manage some LSM
state (e.g. /proc/self/attr).
System containers, containers that run their own init/systemd/etc.,
require a working procfs.
Nested container orchestrators often run in system containers, which
require a working procfs (see above).
I'm sure there are plenty others, but these are the ones that came
immediately to mind.
--
paul moore
www.paul-moore.com
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-10-31 23:38 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 72+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-09-19 1:22 [PATCH ghak90 V7 00/21] audit: implement container identifier Richard Guy Briggs
2019-09-19 1:22 ` [PATCH ghak90 V7 01/21] audit: collect audit task parameters Richard Guy Briggs
2019-09-19 1:22 ` [PATCH ghak90 V7 02/21] audit: add container id Richard Guy Briggs
2019-09-19 1:22 ` [PATCH ghak90 V7 03/21] audit: read container ID of a process Richard Guy Briggs
2019-09-19 1:22 ` [PATCH ghak90 V7 04/21] audit: convert to contid list to check for orch/engine ownership Richard Guy Briggs
2019-09-26 14:46 ` Neil Horman
2019-10-25 20:00 ` Richard Guy Briggs
2019-10-28 12:20 ` Neil Horman
2019-10-11 0:38 ` Paul Moore
2019-10-25 21:00 ` Richard Guy Briggs
2019-11-08 18:26 ` Paul Moore
2019-09-19 1:22 ` [PATCH ghak90 V7 05/21] audit: log drop of contid on exit of last task Richard Guy Briggs
2019-10-11 0:38 ` Paul Moore
2019-10-25 19:43 ` Richard Guy Briggs
2019-09-19 1:22 ` [PATCH ghak90 V7 06/21] audit: contid limit of 32k imposed to avoid DoS Richard Guy Briggs
2019-09-27 12:51 ` Neil Horman
2019-10-11 0:38 ` Paul Moore
2019-10-24 21:23 ` Richard Guy Briggs
2019-11-08 17:49 ` Paul Moore
2019-12-17 18:45 ` Richard Guy Briggs
2019-12-17 19:25 ` Steve Grubb
2019-12-17 19:56 ` Richard Guy Briggs
2019-10-25 20:15 ` Richard Guy Briggs
2019-09-19 1:22 ` [PATCH ghak90 V7 07/21] audit: log container info of syscalls Richard Guy Briggs
2019-09-19 1:22 ` [PATCH ghak90 V7 08/21] audit: add contid support for signalling the audit daemon Richard Guy Briggs
2019-10-11 0:39 ` Paul Moore
2019-10-25 19:20 ` Richard Guy Briggs
2019-11-08 17:41 ` Paul Moore
2019-09-19 1:22 ` [PATCH ghak90 V7 09/21] audit: add support for non-syscall auxiliary records Richard Guy Briggs
2019-09-19 1:22 ` [PATCH ghak90 V7 10/21] audit: add containerid support for user records Richard Guy Briggs
2019-09-19 1:22 ` [PATCH ghak90 V7 11/21] audit: add containerid filtering Richard Guy Briggs
2019-09-19 1:22 ` [PATCH ghak90 V7 12/21] audit: add support for containerid to network namespaces Richard Guy Briggs
2019-10-11 0:39 ` Paul Moore
2019-09-19 1:22 ` [PATCH ghak90 V7 13/21] audit: NETFILTER_PKT: record each container ID associated with a netNS Richard Guy Briggs
2019-10-11 0:39 ` Paul Moore
2019-09-19 1:22 ` [PATCH ghak90 V7 14/21] audit: contid check descendancy and nesting Richard Guy Briggs
2019-10-11 0:40 ` Paul Moore
2019-10-24 22:08 ` Richard Guy Briggs
2019-10-30 20:32 ` Paul Moore
2019-09-19 1:22 ` [PATCH ghak90 V7 15/21] sched: pull task_is_descendant into kernel/sched/core.c Richard Guy Briggs
2019-10-11 0:40 ` Paul Moore
2019-09-19 1:22 ` [PATCH ghak90 V7 16/21] audit: add support for contid set/get by netlink Richard Guy Briggs
2019-10-11 0:40 ` Paul Moore
2019-09-19 1:22 ` [PATCH ghak90 V7 17/21] audit: add support for loginuid/sessionid " Richard Guy Briggs
2019-10-11 0:40 ` Paul Moore
2019-09-19 1:22 ` [PATCH ghak90 V7 18/21] audit: track container nesting Richard Guy Briggs
2019-10-11 0:40 ` Paul Moore
2019-09-19 1:22 ` [PATCH ghak90 V7 19/21] audit: check cont depth Richard Guy Briggs
2019-09-19 1:22 ` [PATCH ghak90 V7 20/21] audit: add capcontid to set contid outside init_user_ns Richard Guy Briggs
2019-10-19 1:39 ` Richard Guy Briggs
2019-10-21 19:53 ` Paul Moore
2019-10-21 21:38 ` Richard Guy Briggs
2019-10-21 21:43 ` Paul Moore
2019-10-21 23:57 ` Richard Guy Briggs
2019-10-22 0:31 ` Paul Moore
2019-10-22 12:13 ` Neil Horman
2019-10-22 14:04 ` Paul Moore
2019-10-22 20:06 ` Richard Guy Briggs
2019-10-22 14:27 ` Richard Guy Briggs
2019-10-22 14:34 ` Paul Moore
2019-10-24 21:00 ` Richard Guy Briggs
2019-10-30 20:27 ` Paul Moore
2019-10-30 22:03 ` Richard Guy Briggs
2019-10-31 13:59 ` Paul Moore
2019-10-31 14:50 ` Steve Grubb
2019-10-31 23:37 ` Paul Moore [this message]
2019-11-01 1:02 ` Duncan Roe
2019-11-01 15:09 ` Richard Guy Briggs
2019-11-01 15:13 ` Steve Grubb
2019-11-01 15:21 ` Richard Guy Briggs
2019-11-01 16:22 ` Paul Moore
2019-09-19 1:22 ` [PATCH ghak90 V7 21/21] audit: add proc interface for capcontid Richard Guy Briggs
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