From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=3.0 tests=DKIMWL_WL_MED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 243DEC43381 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 06:57:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6DAE2087B for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 06:57:49 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=paul-moore-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@paul-moore-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="OcCZh083" Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1728757AbfBTG5s (ORCPT ); Wed, 20 Feb 2019 01:57:48 -0500 Received: from mail-lj1-f194.google.com ([209.85.208.194]:35517 "EHLO mail-lj1-f194.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726255AbfBTG5s (ORCPT ); Wed, 20 Feb 2019 01:57:48 -0500 Received: by mail-lj1-f194.google.com with SMTP id j13-v6so19866077ljc.2 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 22:57:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=paul-moore-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ncoDYnqxH3gs9Sc4jdqZc699sEVY31p6X34ojqSqzzM=; b=OcCZh083AzJ6sYc48woP23gRRbpaNKLC68TAdlArP77RO3+mrjVrj/iw4ZpWg3rNV3 29swcTzY/zTMAOqxs45u579zp81oWJDiOwSJh6tom9D/tAOgnuzVSLlkcuqb8zkvn041 kOisgtVcvn0D2ldK2m99xkgmKknYygp1QYdTxOKnNijCZ/APmJ7hGFeM3e3VsCDdMErt wx0sR0iBJ+9HphZXJkooMsrO2GYHiQuoD7D0L5Nb1CAmiVGw+uEgE5SHW+LeT4H60qrm snbkENIP97Ktg8O/dDr3jUbp95t4Oa9ezjlJLisfHr/j4+wT/VqcxY16IMT2kuOtYSUn LRcw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ncoDYnqxH3gs9Sc4jdqZc699sEVY31p6X34ojqSqzzM=; b=Q9pv6u6kjCxvCAkFuG771drZ3/b4EapAlKqOEKMw+RHl1d2YbBmBo0tOH8Z70m08kY HAbngU2BxSIyYtWDKN2aXRfbqzXmWblS1bG3B73kMM3JXjfmKCObcCKzujEQR99u3ERG hhy8+NpuxgM1yDCFYqR4LisBVpubeeo1V+k36joBL+NhJaOzdprZ4vqzCClaK+1pAMJK EdkhYgpbGJ3Y3MUsWNwz9HqUrAvC97q4vet9gn0s/g5Db17XsZXdPBdLBR9cBLh5/ls1 M0cY37NsLBBjiTkZ3shxWilC1sBpv7ARxm4dfJwrJpnjeyxFg2k8YwOxvDwXh626G8tS Gcdw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuYfXynYOcdbGjOeohuKi+tPixsqXSkIv6kf9eHHCpOjOL0HEG43 YQFYg8BHyyNdidxgAiaDanN+AehyZA4nO/Zwm0t4 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IYNFpwogVRQTUBcod7un1tdomwmO6KB9Kx4d3EN4057kTMV12Wev9+tRhU4ylfg5rpiF1lmm8LPwJmAQFU2rTo= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:2419:: with SMTP id k25mr8500519ljk.38.1550645865873; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 22:57:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1550432358.2809.21.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <155024683432.21651.14153938339749694146.stgit@warthog.procyon.org.uk> <155024685321.21651.1504201877881622756.stgit@warthog.procyon.org.uk> <19562.1550617574@warthog.procyon.org.uk> <1550629220.11684.3.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <054c1e762d28306abd4db9c42fb1c5f4261332fd.camel@themaw.net> <1550634367.11684.6.camel@HansenPartnership.com> In-Reply-To: <1550634367.11684.6.camel@HansenPartnership.com> From: Paul Moore Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 01:57:34 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 02/27] containers: Implement containers as kernel objects To: James Bottomley Cc: Ian Kent , David Howells , keyrings@vger.kernel.org, trond.myklebust@hammerspace.com, sfrench@samba.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, rgb@redhat.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, containers@lists.linux-foundation.org, cgroups@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 10:46 PM James Bottomley wrote: > On Wed, 2019-02-20 at 11:04 +0800, Ian Kent wrote: > > On Tue, 2019-02-19 at 18:20 -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > > > On Tue, 2019-02-19 at 23:06 +0000, David Howells wrote: > > > > James Bottomley wrote: > > > > > > > > > I thought we got agreement years ago that containers don't > > > > > exist in Linux as a single entity: they're currently a > > > > > collection of cgroups and namespaces some of which may and some > > > > > of which may not be local to the entity the orchestration > > > > > system thinks of as a "container". > > > > > > > > I wasn't party to that agreement and don't feel particularly > > > > bound by it. > > > > > > That's not at all relevant, is it? The point is we have widespread > > > uses of namespaces and cgroups that span containers today meaning > > > that a "container id" becomes a problematic concept. What we > > > finally got to with the audit people was an unmodifiable label > > > which the orchestration system can set ... can't you just use that? > > > > Sorry James, I fail to see how assigning an id to a collection of > > objects constitutes a problem or how that could restrict the way a > > container is used. > > Rather than rehash the whole argument again, what's the reason you > can't use the audit label? It seems to do what you want in a way that > doesn't cause problems. If you can just use it there's little point > arguing over what is effectively a moot issue. Ignoring for a moment whether or not the audit container ID is applicable here, one of the things I've been focused on with the audit container ID work is trying to make it difficult for other subsystems to use it. I've taken this stance not because I don't think something like a container ID would be useful outside the audit subsystem, but rather because I'm afraid of how it might be abused by other subsystems and that abuse might threaten the existence of the audit container ID. If there is a willingness to implement a general kernel container ID that behaves similarly to how the audit container ID is envisioned, I'd much rather do that then implement something which is audit specific. -- paul moore www.paul-moore.com