LKML Archive on lore.kernel.org
 help / color / Atom feed
From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.ibm.com>
Cc: Eric Dumazet <eric.dumazet@gmail.com>,
	Herbert Xu <herbert@gondor.apana.org.au>,
	Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>,
	Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@gmail.com>,
	Frederic Weisbecker <fweisbec@gmail.com>,
	Fengguang Wu <fengguang.wu@intel.com>, LKP <lkp@01.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Netdev <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
	"David S. Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	Andrea Parri <andrea.parri@amarulasolutions.com>,
	Luc Maranget <luc.maranget@inria.fr>,
	Jade Alglave <j.alglave@ucl.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: inet: frags: Turn fqdir->dead into an int for old Alphas
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 10:50:51 -0700
Message-ID: <CAHk-=wiRduKzoLpAwU7iFiOJ6DX7RE+PZ_wFi9Cvq=hDoaNsPA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAHk-=wj1G9nXMzAu=Ldbd4_bbzVtWgNORDKMD4bKTO6dRrMPmQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jun 8, 2019 at 10:42 AM Linus Torvalds
<torvalds@linux-foundation.org> wrote:
>
> There are no atomic rmw sequences that have reasonable performance for
> the bitfield updates themselves.

Note that this is purely about the writing side. Reads of bitfield
values can be (and generally _should_ be) atomic, and hopefully C11
means that you wouldn't see intermediate values.

But I'm not convinced about that either: one natural way to update a
bitfield is to first do the masking, and then do the insertion of new
bits, so a bitfield assignment very easily exposes non-real values to
a concurrent read on another CPU.

What I think C11 is supposed to protect is from compilers doing
horribly bad things, and accessing bitfields with bigger types than
the field itself, ie when you have

   struct {
       char c;
       int field1:5;
   };

then a write to "field1" had better not touch "char c" as part of the
rmw operation, because that would indeed introduce a data-race with a
completely independent field that might have completely independent
locking rules.

But

   struct {
        int c:8;
        int field1:5;
   };

would not sanely have the same guarantees, even if the layout in
memory might be identical. Once you have bitfields next to each other,
and use a base type that means they can be combined together, they
can't be sanely modified without locking.

(And I don't know if C11 took up the "base type of the bitfield"
thing. Maybe you still need to use the ":0" thing to force alignment,
and maybe the C standards people still haven't made the underlying
type be meaningful other than for sign handling).

            Linus

  reply index

Thread overview: 62+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-09-10  0:57 [rcu] kernel BUG at include/linux/pagemap.h:149! Fengguang Wu
2015-09-10 10:25 ` Boqun Feng
2015-09-10 17:16   ` Paul E. McKenney
2015-09-11  2:19     ` Boqun Feng
     [not found]       ` <CAJzB8QG=1iZW3dQEie6ZSTLv8GZ3YSut0aL1VU7LLmiHQ1B1DQ@mail.gmail.com>
2015-09-11 21:59         ` Paul E. McKenney
2015-09-12  5:46           ` Boqun Feng
2015-09-21 19:30       ` Frederic Weisbecker
2015-09-21 20:43         ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-06-02  5:56           ` rcu_read_lock lost its compiler barrier Herbert Xu
2019-06-02 20:54             ` Linus Torvalds
2019-06-03  2:46               ` Herbert Xu
2019-06-03  3:47                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-06-03  4:01                   ` Herbert Xu
2019-06-03  4:17                     ` Herbert Xu
2019-06-03  7:23                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-06-03  8:42                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-06-03 15:26                         ` David Laight
2019-06-03 15:40                           ` Linus Torvalds
2019-06-03  5:26                   ` Herbert Xu
2019-06-03  6:42                     ` Boqun Feng
2019-06-03 20:03                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-06-04 14:44                         ` Alan Stern
2019-06-04 16:04                           ` Linus Torvalds
2019-06-04 17:00                             ` Alan Stern
2019-06-04 17:29                               ` Linus Torvalds
2019-06-07 14:09                             ` inet: frags: Turn fqdir->dead into an int for old Alphas Herbert Xu
2019-06-07 15:26                               ` Eric Dumazet
2019-06-07 15:32                                 ` Herbert Xu
2019-06-07 16:13                                   ` Eric Dumazet
2019-06-07 16:19                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-06-08 15:27                                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-06-08 17:42                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2019-06-08 17:50                                       ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2019-06-08 18:50                                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-06-08 18:14                                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-06-06  4:51                           ` rcu_read_lock lost its compiler barrier Herbert Xu
2019-06-06  6:05                             ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-06-06  6:14                               ` Herbert Xu
2019-06-06  9:06                                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-06-06  9:28                                   ` Herbert Xu
2019-06-06 10:58                                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-06-06 13:38                                       ` Herbert Xu
2019-06-06 13:48                                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-06-06  8:16                           ` Andrea Parri
2019-06-06 14:19                             ` Alan Stern
2019-06-08 15:19                               ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-06-08 15:56                                 ` Alan Stern
2019-06-08 16:31                                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-06-03  9:35                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-06-06  8:38                 ` Andrea Parri
2019-06-06  9:32                   ` Herbert Xu
2019-06-03  0:06             ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-06-03  3:03               ` Herbert Xu
2019-06-03  9:27                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-06-03 15:55                 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-06-03 16:07                   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-06-03 19:53                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-06-03 20:24                       ` Linus Torvalds
2019-06-04 21:14                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-06-05  2:21                           ` Herbert Xu
2019-06-05  3:30                             ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-06-06  4:37                               ` Herbert Xu

Reply instructions:

You may reply publically to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to='CAHk-=wiRduKzoLpAwU7iFiOJ6DX7RE+PZ_wFi9Cvq=hDoaNsPA@mail.gmail.com' \
    --to=torvalds@linux-foundation.org \
    --cc=andrea.parri@amarulasolutions.com \
    --cc=boqun.feng@gmail.com \
    --cc=davem@davemloft.net \
    --cc=eric.dumazet@gmail.com \
    --cc=fengguang.wu@intel.com \
    --cc=fweisbec@gmail.com \
    --cc=herbert@gondor.apana.org.au \
    --cc=j.alglave@ucl.ac.uk \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=lkp@01.org \
    --cc=luc.maranget@inria.fr \
    --cc=netdev@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=paulmck@linux.ibm.com \
    --cc=stern@rowland.harvard.edu \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link

LKML Archive on lore.kernel.org

Archives are clonable:
	git clone --mirror https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/0 lkml/git/0.git
	git clone --mirror https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/1 lkml/git/1.git
	git clone --mirror https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/2 lkml/git/2.git
	git clone --mirror https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/3 lkml/git/3.git
	git clone --mirror https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/4 lkml/git/4.git
	git clone --mirror https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/5 lkml/git/5.git
	git clone --mirror https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/6 lkml/git/6.git
	git clone --mirror https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/7 lkml/git/7.git
	git clone --mirror https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/8 lkml/git/8.git

	# If you have public-inbox 1.1+ installed, you may
	# initialize and index your mirror using the following commands:
	public-inbox-init -V2 lkml lkml/ https://lore.kernel.org/lkml \
		linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
	public-inbox-index lkml

Example config snippet for mirrors

Newsgroup available over NNTP:
	nntp://nntp.lore.kernel.org/org.kernel.vger.linux-kernel


AGPL code for this site: git clone https://public-inbox.org/public-inbox.git