From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF8CFC00449 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 13:14:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66EE22084D for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 13:14:11 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=zx2c4.com header.i=@zx2c4.com header.b="f6JeRTDQ" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 66EE22084D Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=zx2c4.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1728495AbeJEUMu (ORCPT ); Fri, 5 Oct 2018 16:12:50 -0400 Received: from frisell.zx2c4.com ([192.95.5.64]:49423 "EHLO frisell.zx2c4.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1727733AbeJEUMt (ORCPT ); Fri, 5 Oct 2018 16:12:49 -0400 Received: by frisell.zx2c4.com (ZX2C4 Mail Server) with ESMTP id e3265ff3; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 13:13:43 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=zx2c4.com; h=mime-version :references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-type; s=mail; bh=ECunFzCWLWJhIxlpg2RgA2TRgr8=; b=f6JeRT DQZni7mxB2PNVoV5fYTsxQmmOZQ7dsaqtQMLTHuoTILqHfdJlOjjV+ODprcliwQz KzsIRUC1RtA9U/fUT2Doo/4undjMJL1E1B48/axCTCt25bXAkQDCuT6yU2TNfqdJ 2IecAqtqZ/YTjN6ewFkkc1sK8moGHOnkZ8N1d2MRz6zdJAK8+hqm5jprirIsKGNN 9le0spc5onw3eop1ZqXzyVpeiqxK0hlHiEZZq15Kqf9f9+O8V/IX2uFaOgAW6qJq uux2SL6vH1TZB1UyPWQN5Ri2uMdM/QdLb8EYKURSEBea9ux+LJCoWdxUdyXtWMkJ V9GZVDLMkQQlQTtg== Received: by frisell.zx2c4.com (ZX2C4 Mail Server) with ESMTPSA id db984af7 (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128:NO); Fri, 5 Oct 2018 13:13:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ot1-f49.google.com with SMTP id i12-v6so12688922otl.1; Fri, 05 Oct 2018 06:14:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoiWl5O2gZbuYXb1KvmNp9aO/rU46YIz4b9FUURefI/2JwbO/IEY YAPCOLT2cWWGZehA8pgfGz2Jq0eu471x0t98MnI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV62g1cXPYSKGppeDtszc//KO5DhrJIJHskrimdKWqvNhNvGspdstMDCb/1Slvz/ImslA0rox3346sYIRW1r1/jc= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:1d47:: with SMTP id m65mr6930413otm.199.1538745245184; Fri, 05 Oct 2018 06:14:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181002033908.324yhwqaohfsq65d@gondor.apana.org.au> <20181003064951.GC745@sol.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <20181003064951.GC745@sol.localdomain> From: "Jason A. Donenfeld" Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 15:13:54 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next v6 00/23] WireGuard: Secure Network Tunnel To: Eric Biggers Cc: Ard Biesheuvel , Herbert Xu , LKML , Netdev , Linux Crypto Mailing List , David Miller , Greg Kroah-Hartman Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Hi Eric, On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 8:49 AM Eric Biggers wrote: > It's not really about the name, though. It's actually about the whole way of > thinking about the submission. Is it a new special library with its own things > going on, or is it just some crypto helper functions? It's really just the > latter, but you've been presenting it as the former No, it really is its own thing with important differences from the present crypto api. Zinc's focus is on simplicity and clarity. To the extent that we're at all tangled with the current crypto api, the goal is to untangle as much as possible. It intends to be a small and lightweight set of routines, whose relationships are obvious, and with this direct and to the point organization, as well as work with the larger cryptography community and with academia to invite collaboration. With this comes a different way of maintaining it, with higher standards and a preference for different implementations than the current situation. With Zinc, you have an obvious series of C function calls composing the whole thing, without complicated indirection. It's something that could be trivially lifted out into a userspace library, and used broadly, for example -- something I'll probably do at some point. That's a bit of a design change to the current crypto api, and sprinkling some direct function calls within the current crypto api's complicated enterprise situation would only kick the can further down the road, as much complexity would still remain. The goal is to move away from behemoth enterprise APIs, and large and complex codebases to a simple and direct way of doing things. This desire to untangle, to start from a simpler base, and to generally do things differently means it will go into lib/zinc/ and include/zinc/ and have different maintainers. Jason