From: Andy Shevchenko <andy.shevchenko@gmail.com>
To: Emmanuel Grumbach <egrumbach@gmail.com>
Cc: Brian Norris <briannorris@chromium.org>,
Luis Chamberlain <mcgrof@kernel.org>,
Johannes Berg <johannes@sipsolutions.net>,
linux-wireless <linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org>,
aquini@redhat.com,
"Peter Zijlstra (Intel)" <peterz@infradead.org>,
Daniel Vetter <daniel.vetter@ffwll.ch>,
Mauro Carvalho Chehab <mchehab+samsung@kernel.org>,
Will Deacon <will@kernel.org>, Baoquan He <bhe@redhat.com>,
ath10k@lists.infradead.org, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de>,
Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, Dave Young <dyoung@redhat.com>,
Petr Mladek <pmladek@suse.com>, Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>,
Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
gpiccoli@canonical.com, Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
cai@lca.pw, Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
Andy Shevchenko <andriy.shevchenko@linux.intel.com>,
Kalle Valo <kvalo@codeaurora.org>,
"<netdev@vger.kernel.org>" <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
schlad@suse.de, Linux Kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
Jessica Yu <jeyu@kernel.org>,
Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
"David S. Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 12/15] ath10k: use new module_firmware_crashed()
Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 11:32:32 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAHp75VfOvABsQyxdy9j-On6pTunM1+uisoWQOmoNa7wLWJ+CSw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CANUX_P1pnV46gOo0aL6QV0b+49ubB7C5nuUOuOfoT7aOM+ye9w@mail.gmail.com>
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 8:40 AM Emmanuel Grumbach <egrumbach@gmail.com> wrote:
> Since I have been involved quite a bit in the firmware debugging
> features in iwlwifi, I think I can give a few insights here.
>
> But before this, we need to understand that there are several sources of issues:
> 1) the firmware may crash but the bus is still alive, you can still
> use the bus to get the crash data
> 2) the bus is dead, when that happens, the firmware might even be in a
> good condition, but since the bus is dead, you stop getting any
> information about the firmware, and then, at some point, you get to
> the conclusion that the firmware is dead. You can't get the crash data
> that resides on the other side of the bus (you may have gathered data
> in the DRAM directly, but that's a different thing), and you don't
> have much recovery to do besides re-starting the PCI enumeration.
>
> At Intel, we have seen both unfortunately. The bus issues are the ones
> that are trickier obviously. Trickier to detect (because you just get
> garbage from any request you issue on the bus), and trickier to
> handle. One can argue that the kernel should *not* handle those and
> let this in userspace hands. I guess it all depends on what component
> you ship to your customer and what you customer asks from you :).
Or the two best approaches:
1) get rid of firmware completely;
2) make it OSS (like SOF).
I think any of these is a right thing to do in long-term perspective.
How many firmwares average computer has? 50? 100? Any of them is a
burden and PITA.
--
With Best Regards,
Andy Shevchenko
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-05-20 8:32 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 81+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-05-15 21:28 [PATCH v2 00/15] net: taint when the device driver firmware crashes Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 01/15] taint: add module firmware crash taint support Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16 4:03 ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-19 16:42 ` Jessica Yu
2020-05-22 5:17 ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 02/15] ethernet/839: use new module_firmware_crashed() Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16 4:04 ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 03/15] bnx2x: " Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16 4:05 ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 04/15] bnxt: " Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16 4:06 ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-16 5:14 ` Vasundhara Volam
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 05/15] bna: " Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16 4:07 ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 06/15] liquidio: " Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16 4:07 ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 07/15] cxgb4: " Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16 4:09 ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 08/15] ehea: " Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16 4:09 ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 09/15] qed: " Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16 4:10 ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 10/15] soc: qcom: ipa: " Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16 4:10 ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-19 22:34 ` Alex Elder
2020-05-22 5:28 ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-22 20:52 ` Alex Elder
2020-05-22 21:53 ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 11/15] wimax/i2400m: " Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16 4:11 ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 12/15] ath10k: " Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16 4:11 ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-16 13:24 ` Johannes Berg
2020-05-16 13:50 ` Johannes Berg
2020-05-18 16:56 ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-19 1:23 ` Brian Norris
2020-05-19 14:02 ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-20 0:47 ` Brian Norris
2020-05-20 5:37 ` Emmanuel Grumbach
2020-05-20 8:32 ` Andy Shevchenko [this message]
2020-05-21 19:01 ` Brian Norris
2020-05-22 5:12 ` Emmanuel Grumbach
2020-05-22 5:23 ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-18 16:51 ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-18 16:58 ` Ben Greear
2020-05-18 17:09 ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-18 17:15 ` Ben Greear
2020-05-18 17:18 ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-18 18:06 ` Steve deRosier
2020-05-18 19:09 ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-18 19:25 ` Johannes Berg
2020-05-18 19:59 ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-18 20:07 ` Johannes Berg
2020-05-18 21:18 ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-18 20:28 ` Jakub Kicinski
2020-05-18 20:29 ` Johannes Berg
2020-05-18 20:35 ` Jakub Kicinski
2020-05-18 20:41 ` Johannes Berg
2020-05-18 20:46 ` Jakub Kicinski
2020-05-18 21:22 ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-18 22:16 ` Jakub Kicinski
2020-05-19 1:05 ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-19 21:15 ` [RFC 1/2] devlink: add simple fw crash helpers Jakub Kicinski
2020-05-22 5:20 ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-22 17:17 ` Jakub Kicinski
2020-05-22 20:46 ` Johannes Berg
2020-05-22 21:51 ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-22 23:23 ` Steve deRosier
2020-05-22 23:44 ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-25 9:07 ` Andy Shevchenko
2020-05-25 17:08 ` Ben Greear
2020-05-25 20:57 ` Jakub Kicinski
2020-07-30 13:56 ` Johannes Berg
2020-05-22 21:49 ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-19 21:15 ` [RFC 2/2] i2400m: use devlink health reporter Jakub Kicinski
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 13/15] ath6kl: use new module_firmware_crashed() Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16 4:12 ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 14/15] brcm80211: " Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16 4:13 ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 15/15] mwl8k: " Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16 4:13 ` Rafael Aquini
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