From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.1 required=3.0 tests=DKIMWL_WL_MED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4983C43441 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 14:40:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AF3E22511 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 14:40:05 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com header.i=@google.com header.b="Grdmz2xD" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 7AF3E22511 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=reject dis=none) header.from=google.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1729722AbeKMAdg (ORCPT ); Mon, 12 Nov 2018 19:33:36 -0500 Received: from mail-vk1-f195.google.com ([209.85.221.195]:38454 "EHLO mail-vk1-f195.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1727247AbeKMAdg (ORCPT ); Mon, 12 Nov 2018 19:33:36 -0500 Received: by mail-vk1-f195.google.com with SMTP id w72so2008991vkd.5 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 06:40:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=oxUWPhlswpgUSZKfLj7fFo/TjhItz+j8o7fcFiVa0io=; b=Grdmz2xD3KykmNgsD+Ef+Rdo+h7hBTlH10HNbckDUkiQY6flUvpc+ok6If3O/xXovt peb1eIQwkYUz5lveomi/4DiCT7qJHWtAVH7XSdiHbjci7evR8/3opYg6QK/sXye44L9U mOms1DjQY5GLmbriMi0b+WbtDVT4lGStFlQZ5RfGL4CRq/5uNUorNfwIwZd9HIVG8TUt kwqF78xZy/ps3SH8nlWxjLyPDonbj5NnPIS+CS1Bivw1/L5rS4fN3wL1NaFY7k0/UtK7 zPqfLiCnrtrBQLPRRXGGCVJMv3tbUy0WRIm0MZ4OQLZvU7LfHE3JuClnBOMqconO0a8/ SKyg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=oxUWPhlswpgUSZKfLj7fFo/TjhItz+j8o7fcFiVa0io=; b=tU1AXOY4FqKXELvrja7C8InFyfId9eoF0rOv+FXDK5CxKVavix+jSvRPg6CdKJpiyD Sg4Dc9ET4LQq4ezVzhLu6F1txRenljh/RzpJ1J3QiRN9yQewaVwk96cynBSZr5hYk1se JyxB4dqkvNE8LRmKOar85R3SiKzBpMyz9V4UxmtSRaVZvYW+ADjrIZp/CMv+fHv+9czK nl4E2UTmxokmJkKXcZmjVsgndDMXwOqoa6ztyfSUzRgBDl/Qa/tTy2aL0y+AWpAoN40O VJOI6gXeGiZ2n9tIrQF5kwNwFNFyxFO/xL+BWBu1vgCn6dAXFplxF3WOnmmOfY6FN/9i gDYA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gJP9IBMVaa/9XBvHwm+YBQBqqztguE3AufFxaCyVH5UymViq6rj KLXJuTX98ilGjaQ2RUttZ3fchxTZI2VHrZMBpg4BzA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5d/tyWzIS3zjyWXQ544rAWMtu1dS0pstyjgEeqaSerlHdwjAMIRdG2TLwgVJOdXnm01SKZCp5YnNTM97RXFm6I= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:34c7:: with SMTP id b190mr492926vka.55.1542033601751; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 06:40:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a67:f48d:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 06:40:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20181112143506.GC7377@thunk.org> References: <877ehjx447.fsf@oldenburg.str.redhat.com> <45cf58e0-909e-262c-5b9f-b91d62350a79@arm.com> <20181112143506.GC7377@thunk.org> From: Daniel Colascione Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 06:40:00 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Official Linux system wrapper library? To: "Theodore Y. Ts'o" , Szabolcs Nagy , Daniel Colascione , Florian Weimer , nd , "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" , linux-kernel , Joel Fernandes , Linux API , Willy Tarreau , Vlastimil Babka , "Carlos O'Donell" , "libc-alpha@sourceware.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 6:35 AM, Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote: > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 12:45:26PM +0000, Szabolcs Nagy wrote: >> >> A lot of the new system calls lack clear specifications or are just >> >> somewhat misdesigned. For example, pkey_alloc >> > [snip] >> >> getrandom still causes boot delays > > I'll note that what some people consider misdesigns, others consider > "fix CVE's". > > Some people may consider it more important to avoid boot delays; > others would consider internet-wide security problems, ala > https://factorable.net to be higher priority. > > It's clear this is one area where I and some glibc developers have had > a difference of opinion. The bigger problem is that if a single glibc > developer is able to veto any new system call, maybe we *do* need to > have a kernel-provided library which bypasses glibc.... Historically speaking, the liberum veto has not led to good governance.