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From: Nick Desaulniers <ndesaulniers@google.com>
To: Andy Shevchenko <andy.shevchenko@gmail.com>,
	Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>
Cc: Masahiro Yamada <masahiroy@kernel.org>,
	Joe Perches <joe@perches.com>,
	clang-built-linux <clang-built-linux@googlegroups.com>,
	stable <stable@vger.kernel.org>, Andy Lavr <andy.lavr@gmail.com>,
	Arvind Sankar <nivedita@alum.mit.edu>,
	Rasmus Villemoes <linux@rasmusvillemoes.dk>,
	Sami Tolvanen <samitolvanen@google.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Andy Shevchenko <andriy.shevchenko@linux.intel.com>,
	Alexandru Ardelean <alexandru.ardelean@analog.com>,
	Yury Norov <yury.norov@gmail.com>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3] lib/string.c: implement stpcpy
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 16:21:17 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAKwvOdnV6GySbhKGVEUBV5GdanR9xRWAFE0JPcpORR=2dmRWPg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAHp75VcGOvYOXCaQeux5PQ+tHRYF3W=173s80U=mDE-0zzwTXg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 1:59 AM Andy Shevchenko
<andy.shevchenko@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> strcpy() is not a bad API for the cases when you know what you are
> doing. A problem that most of the developers do not know what they are
> doing.
> No need to split everything to bad and good by its name or semantics,
> each API has its own pros and cons and programmers must use their
> brains.

On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 1:17 AM Andy Shevchenko
<andy.shevchenko@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Seems to me that this is a fixation on an abstract problem that never
> exists (of course, if a developer has brains to think).

Of course, no "True Scotsman" would accidentally misuse C string.h API!
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman

(I will note the irony of my off by one in my v1 implementation of
stpcpy. I've also missed strncpy zeroing the rest of a destination
buffer before.  I might not be a "True Scotsman.")

On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 11:30 AM Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org> wrote:
>
> I equate "unsafe" or "fragile" with "bad". There's no reason to use our
> brains for remembering what's safe or not when we can just remove unsafe
> things from the available APIs, and/or lean on the compiler to help
> (e.g. CONFIG_FORTIFY_SOURCE).

Having seatbelts is great (ie. fortify source), but is no substitute
for driving carefully (having proper APIs that help me not shoot my
foot off).  I think it's nice to have *both*, but if I drove solely
relying on my seatbelts, we might all be in trouble.  Not disagreeing
with you, Kees.
-- 
Thanks,
~Nick Desaulniers

  reply	other threads:[~2020-08-31 23:21 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 25+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-08-25 13:58 [PATCH v3] lib/string.c: implement stpcpy Nick Desaulniers
2020-08-25 18:51 ` Nathan Chancellor
2020-08-26 15:41 ` Sedat Dilek
2020-08-26 15:58 ` Masahiro Yamada
2020-09-06  9:57   ` Kees Cook
2020-08-26 16:49 ` Masahiro Yamada
2020-08-26 16:57   ` Joe Perches
2020-08-26 16:58     ` Nick Desaulniers
2020-08-26 22:59       ` Masahiro Yamada
2020-08-26 23:38         ` Kees Cook
2020-08-26 23:57           ` Joe Perches
2020-08-27  2:33             ` Kees Cook
2020-08-27  2:42               ` Joe Perches
2020-08-27 18:26                 ` Kees Cook
2020-08-27  8:59           ` Andy Shevchenko
2020-08-27 18:30             ` Kees Cook
2020-08-27 19:37               ` Joe Perches
2020-08-27 19:41                 ` Kees Cook
2020-08-27 20:05               ` Andy Shevchenko
2020-08-27 22:26                 ` Kees Cook
2020-08-28  8:17                   ` Andy Shevchenko
2020-08-31 23:21                     ` Nick Desaulniers [this message]
2020-09-01  8:51                       ` David Laight
2020-08-25 14:00 Nick Desaulniers
2020-08-26 15:22 ` Kees Cook

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