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From: Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>
To: David Laight <David.Laight@aculab.com>
Cc: Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	"Luck, Tony" <tony.luck@intel.com>,
	"Yu, Fenghua" <fenghua.yu@intel.com>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	H Peter Anvin <hpa@zytor.com>, "Raj, Ashok" <ashok.raj@intel.com>,
	"Shankar, Ravi V" <ravi.v.shankar@intel.com>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, x86 <x86@kernel.org>,
	Will Deacon <will@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v10 6/6] x86/split_lock: Enable split lock detection by kernel parameter
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 09:22:50 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CALCETrW1LDuzcnvav=MY1bUv4jQ25n30La5m5x8tXfDknfV_cQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <8d880a468c6242b9a951a83716ddeb07@AcuMS.aculab.com>

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 1:59 AM David Laight <David.Laight@aculab.com> wrote:
>
> From: Andy Lutomirski
> > Sent: 12 December 2019 19:41
> > On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 2:34 PM Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 10:12:56AM -0800, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> >
> > > > > Sure, but we're talking two cpus here.
> > > > >
> > > > >         u32 var = 0;
> > > > >         u8 *ptr = &var;
> > > > >
> > > > >         CPU0                    CPU1
> > > > >
> > > > >                                 xchg(ptr, 1)
> > > > >
> > > > >         xchg((ptr+1, 1);
> > > > >         r = READ_ONCE(var);
> > > > >
> > > > > AFAICT nothing guarantees r == 0x0101. The CPU1 store can be stuck in
> > > > > CPU1's store-buffer. CPU0's xchg() does not overlap and therefore
> > > > > doesn't force a snoop or forward.
> > > >
> > > > I think I don't quite understand.  The final value of var had better
> > > > be 0x0101 or something is severely wrong.
> > >
> > > > But r can be 0x0100 because
> > > > nothing in this example guarantees that the total order of the locked
> > > > instructions has CPU 1's instruction first.
> > >
> > > Assuming CPU1 goes first, why would the load from CPU0 see CPU1's
> > > ptr[0]? It can be in CPU1 store buffer, and TSO allows regular reads to
> > > ignore (remote) store-buffers.
> >
> > What I'm saying is: if CPU0 goes first, then the three operations order as:
> >
> >
> >
> > xchg(ptr+1, 1);
> > r = READ_ONCE(var);  /* 0x0100 */
> > xchg(ptr, 1);
> >
> > Anyway, this is all a bit too hypothetical for me.  Is there a clear
> > example where the total ordering of LOCKed instructions is observable?
> >  That is, is there a sequence of operations on, presumably, two or
> > three CPUs, such that LOCKed instructions being only partially ordered
> > allows an outcome that is disallowed by a total ordering?  I suspect
> > there is, but I haven't come up with it yet.  (I mean in an x86-like
> > memory model.  Getting this in a relaxed atomic model is easy.)
> >
> > As a probably bad example:
> >
> > u32 x0, x1, a1, b0, b1;
> >
> > CPU 0:
> > xchg(&x0, 1);
> > barrier();
> > a1 = READ_ONCE(x1);
> >
> > CPU 1:
> > xchg(&b, 1);
> >
> > CPU 2:
> > b1 = READ_ONCE(x1);
> > smp_rmb();  /* which is just barrier() on x86 */
> > b0 = READ_ONCE(x0);
> >
> > Suppose a1 == 0 and b1 == 1.  Then we know that CPU0's READ_ONCE
> > happened before CPU1's xchg and hence CPU0's xchg happened before
> > CPU1's xchg.  We also know that CPU2's first read observed the write
> > from CPU1's xchg, which means that CPU2's second read should have been
> > after CPU0's xchg (because the xchg operations have a total order
> > according to the SDM).  This means that b0 can't be 0.
> >
> > Hence the outcome (a1, b1, b0) == (0, 1, 0) is disallowed.
> >
> > It's entirely possible that I screwed up the analysis.  But I think
> > this means that the cache coherency mechanism is doing something more
> > intelligent than just shoving the x0=1 write into the store buffer and
> > letting it hang out there.  Something needs to make sure that CPU 2
> > observes everything in the same order that CPU 0 observes, and, as far
> > as I know it, there is a considerable amount of complexity in the CPUs
> > that makes sure this happens.
> >
> > So here's my question: do you have a concrete example of a series of
> > operations and an outcome that you suspect Intel CPUs allow but that
> > is disallowed in the SDM?
>
> I'm not sure that example is at all relevant.
> READ_ONCE() doesn't have any sequencing requirements on the cpu, just on the compiler.
> (The same is true of any 'atomic read'.)

I'm talking specifically about x86 here, where, for example, "Reads
are not reordered with other reads".  So READ_ONCE *does* have
sequencing requirements on the CPUs.

Feel free to replace READ_ONCE with MOV in your head if you like :)

  reply	other threads:[~2019-12-16 17:23 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 145+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-11-21  0:53 [PATCH v10 0/6] Enable split lock detection for real time and debug Fenghua Yu
2019-11-21  0:53 ` [PATCH v10 1/6] x86/msr-index: Add two new MSRs Fenghua Yu
2019-11-21  0:53 ` [PATCH v10 2/6] x86/cpufeatures: Enumerate the IA32_CORE_CAPABILITIES MSR Fenghua Yu
2019-11-21  0:53 ` [PATCH v10 3/6] x86/split_lock: Enumerate split lock detection by " Fenghua Yu
2019-11-21  0:53 ` [PATCH v10 4/6] x86/split_lock: Enumerate split lock detection if the IA32_CORE_CAPABILITIES MSR is not supported Fenghua Yu
2019-11-21 22:07   ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-11-22  0:37     ` Fenghua Yu
2019-11-22  2:13       ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-11-22  9:46         ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-21  0:53 ` [PATCH v10 5/6] x86/split_lock: Handle #AC exception for split lock Fenghua Yu
2019-11-21 22:10   ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-11-21 23:14     ` Fenghua Yu
2019-11-21 23:12       ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-11-21  0:53 ` [PATCH v10 6/6] x86/split_lock: Enable split lock detection by kernel parameter Fenghua Yu
2019-11-21  6:04   ` Ingo Molnar
2019-11-21 13:01     ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-21 13:15       ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-21 21:51         ` Luck, Tony
2019-11-21 22:24           ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-11-21 22:29             ` Luck, Tony
2019-11-21 23:18               ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-11-21 23:53                 ` Fenghua Yu
2019-11-22  1:52                   ` Sean Christopherson
2019-11-22  2:21                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-11-22  2:39                       ` Xiaoyao Li
2019-11-22  2:57                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-11-21 23:55                 ` Luck, Tony
2019-11-22  0:55             ` Luck, Tony
2019-11-22 10:08           ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-21 16:14       ` Fenghua Yu
2019-11-21 17:14         ` Ingo Molnar
2019-11-21 17:35         ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-21 17:12       ` Ingo Molnar
2019-11-21 17:34         ` Luck, Tony
2019-11-22 10:51           ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-22 15:27             ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-22 17:22               ` Luck, Tony
2019-11-22 20:23                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-22 18:02               ` Luck, Tony
2019-11-22 20:23                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-22 20:42                   ` Fenghua Yu
2019-11-22 21:25                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-12-12  8:57                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-12-12 18:52                         ` Luck, Tony
2019-12-12 19:46                           ` Luck, Tony
2019-12-12 20:01                             ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-12-16 16:21                               ` David Laight
2019-11-22 18:44               ` Sean Christopherson
2019-11-22 20:30                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-23  0:30               ` Luck, Tony
2019-11-25 16:13                 ` Sean Christopherson
2019-12-02 18:20                   ` Luck, Tony
2019-12-12  8:59                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-01-10 19:24                     ` [PATCH v11] x86/split_lock: Enable split lock detection by kernel Luck, Tony
2020-01-14  5:55                       ` Sean Christopherson
2020-01-15 22:27                         ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-15 22:57                           ` Sean Christopherson
2020-01-15 23:48                             ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-22 18:55                             ` [PATCH v12] " Luck, Tony
2020-01-22 19:04                               ` Borislav Petkov
2020-01-22 20:03                                 ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-22 20:55                                   ` Borislav Petkov
2020-01-22 22:42                               ` Arvind Sankar
2020-01-22 22:52                                 ` Arvind Sankar
2020-01-22 23:24                                 ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-23  0:45                                   ` Arvind Sankar
2020-01-23  1:23                                     ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-23  4:21                                       ` Arvind Sankar
2020-01-23 17:15                                         ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-23  3:53                                     ` [PATCH v13] " Luck, Tony
2020-01-23  4:45                                       ` Arvind Sankar
2020-01-23 23:16                                         ` [PATCH v14] " Luck, Tony
2020-01-24 21:36                                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2020-01-25  2:47                                             ` [PATCH v15] " Luck, Tony
2020-01-25 10:44                                               ` Borislav Petkov
2020-01-25 19:55                                                 ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-25 20:12                                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-01-25 20:33                                                     ` Borislav Petkov
2020-01-25 21:42                                                       ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-25 22:17                                                         ` Borislav Petkov
2020-01-25 20:29                                                   ` Borislav Petkov
2020-01-25 13:41                                               ` Thomas Gleixner
2020-01-25 22:07                                                 ` [PATCH v16] " Luck, Tony
2020-01-25 22:43                                                   ` Mark D Rustad
2020-01-25 23:10                                                     ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-26 17:27                                                       ` Mark D Rustad
2020-01-26 20:05                                                         ` [PATCH v17] " Luck, Tony
2020-01-29 12:31                                                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2020-01-29 15:24                                                           ` [tip: x86/cpu] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra (Intel)
2020-02-03 20:41                                                           ` [PATCH v17] " Sean Christopherson
2020-02-06  0:49                                                             ` [PATCH] x86/split_lock: Avoid runtime reads of the TEST_CTRL MSR Luck, Tony
2020-02-06  1:18                                                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-02-06 16:46                                                                 ` Luck, Tony
2020-02-06 19:37                                                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-03-03 19:22                                                                     ` Sean Christopherson
2020-02-04  0:04                                                           ` [PATCH v17] x86/split_lock: Enable split lock detection by kernel Sean Christopherson
2020-02-04 12:52                                                             ` Thomas Gleixner
2020-01-26  0:34                                                   ` [PATCH v16] " Andy Lutomirski
2020-01-26 20:01                                                     ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-25 21:25                                               ` [PATCH v15] " Arvind Sankar
2020-01-25 21:50                                                 ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-25 23:51                                                   ` Arvind Sankar
2020-01-26  2:52                                                     ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-27  2:05                                                       ` Tony Luck
2020-01-27  8:04                                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-01-27  8:36                                                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-01-27 17:35                                                     ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-27  8:02                                                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-12-13  0:09               ` [PATCH v11] x86/split_lock: Enable split lock detection by kernel parameter Tony Luck
2019-12-13  0:16                 ` Luck, Tony
2019-11-21 17:43         ` [PATCH v10 6/6] " David Laight
2019-11-21 17:51           ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-11-21 18:53             ` Fenghua Yu
2019-11-21 19:01               ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-11-21 20:25                 ` Fenghua Yu
2019-11-21 20:19                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-21 19:46               ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-21 20:25               ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-21 21:22                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-11-22  9:25                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-22 17:48                     ` Luck, Tony
2019-11-22 20:31                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-22 21:23                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-12-11 17:52                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-12-11 18:12                             ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-12-11 22:34                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-12-12 19:40                                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-12-16  9:59                                   ` David Laight
2019-12-16 17:22                                     ` Andy Lutomirski [this message]
2019-12-16 17:45                                       ` David Laight
2019-12-16 18:06                                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-12-17 10:03                                           ` David Laight
2019-12-11 18:44                             ` Luck, Tony
2019-12-11 22:39                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-12-12 10:36                                 ` David Laight
2019-12-12 13:04                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-12-12 16:02                                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-12-12 16:23                                       ` David Laight
2019-12-12 16:29                                     ` David Laight
2019-11-21 19:56             ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-21 21:01               ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-11-22  9:36                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-22  9:46             ` David Laight
2019-11-22 20:32               ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-21  8:00   ` Peter Zijlstra

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