From: Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>
To: Len Brown <lenb@kernel.org>
Cc: Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
David Laight <David.Laight@aculab.com>,
Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>,
Greg KH <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
"Bae, Chang Seok" <chang.seok.bae@intel.com>,
X86 ML <x86@kernel.org>, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
libc-alpha <libc-alpha@sourceware.org>,
Florian Weimer <fweimer@redhat.com>,
Rich Felker <dalias@libc.org>, Kyle Huey <me@kylehuey.com>,
Keno Fischer <keno@juliacomputing.com>,
Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Candidate Linux ABI for Intel AMX and hypothetical new related features
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 14:44:20 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CALCETrXA-JzBWKdzBZJA8P+pPNKEkxNRPqLganWMpvm6KEUmCw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAJvTdKkDUywOUxb8Toth-7d4U4_S_9_EYHO38XqAPKc2_MXtdA@mail.gmail.com>
On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 1:53 PM Len Brown <lenb@kernel.org> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 6:45 PM Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 3:28 PM Len Brown <lenb@kernel.org> wrote:
> >
> > > We added compiler annotation for user-level interrupt handlers.
> > > I'm not aware of it failing, or otherwise being confused.
> >
> > I followed your link and found nothing. Can you elaborate? In the
> > kernel, we have noinstr, and gcc gives approximately no help toward
> > catching problems.
>
> A search for the word "interrupt" on this page
> https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/x86-Function-Attributes.html#x86-Function-Attributes
> comes to the description of this attribute:
>
> __attribute__ ((interrupt))
>
I read that and I see no mention of anything saying "this will
generate code that does not touch extended state". Instead I see,
paraphrasing, "this will generate code with an ABI that is completely
inappropriate for use in a user space signal handler". Am I missing
something?
> > > dynamic XCR0 breaks the installed base, I thought we had established that.
> >
> > I don't think this is at all established. If some code thinks it
> > knows the uncompacted XSTATE size and XCR0 changes, it crashes. This
> > is not necessarily a showstopper.
>
> My working assumption is that crashing applications actually *is* a showstopper.
> Please clarify.
I think you're presuming that some program actually does this. If no
program does this, it's not an ABI break.
More relevantly, this can only happen in a process that uses XSAVE and
thinks it knows the size that *also* does the prctl to change XCR0.
By construction, existing programs can't break unless they load new
dynamic libraries that break them.
>
> > > We've also established that when running in a VMM, every update to
> > > XCR0 causes a VMEXIT.
> >
> > This is true, it sucks, and Intel could fix it going forward.
>
> What hardware fix do you suggest?
> If a guest is permitted to set XCR0 bits without notifying the VMM,
> what happens when it sets bits that the VMM doesn't know about?
The VM could have a mask of allowed XCR0 bits that don't exist.
TDX solved this problem *somehow* -- XSETBV doesn't (visibly?) exit on
TDX. Surely plain VMX could fix it too.
>
> > > I thought the goal was to allow new programs to have fast signal handlers.
> > > By default, those fast signal handlers would have a stable state
> > > image, and would
> > > not inherit large architectural state on their stacks, and could thus
> > > have minimal overhead on all hardware.
> >
> > That is *a* goal, but not necessarily the only goal.
>
> I fully support coming up with a scheme for fast future-proof signal handlers,
> and I'm willing to back that up by putting work into it.
>
> I don't see any other goals articulated in this thread.
Before we get too carried away with *fast* signal handlers, something
that works with existing programs is also a pretty strong goal. RIght
now AVX-512 breaks existing programs, even if they don't use AVX-512.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-04-09 21:44 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 130+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-03-26 23:12 Candidate Linux ABI for Intel AMX and hypothetical new related features Andy Lutomirski
2021-03-26 23:18 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-03-27 3:39 ` Len Brown
2021-03-27 9:14 ` Borislav Petkov
2021-03-27 9:58 ` Greg KH
2021-03-29 15:47 ` Len Brown
2021-03-29 16:38 ` Len Brown
2021-03-29 16:48 ` Florian Weimer
2021-03-29 18:14 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-03-29 18:16 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-03-29 22:38 ` Len Brown
2021-03-30 5:08 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-03-30 5:50 ` Noah Goldstein
2021-03-30 17:01 ` Len Brown
2021-03-30 17:05 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-03-30 17:56 ` Len Brown
2021-03-30 19:12 ` Dave Hansen
2021-03-30 20:20 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-03-30 20:42 ` Len Brown
2021-03-30 22:01 ` David Laight
2021-03-31 16:31 ` Len Brown
2021-03-31 16:53 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-03-31 21:42 ` Robert O'Callahan
2021-03-31 22:11 ` Len Brown
2021-03-31 22:28 ` Len Brown
2021-03-31 22:45 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-04-09 20:52 ` Len Brown
2021-04-09 21:44 ` Andy Lutomirski [this message]
2021-04-11 19:07 ` Len Brown
2021-04-12 7:59 ` David Laight
2021-04-12 12:19 ` Borislav Petkov
2021-04-12 17:14 ` Sean Christopherson
2021-03-31 22:52 ` Borislav Petkov
2021-04-09 20:55 ` Len Brown
2021-03-28 0:53 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-03-29 7:27 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-03-29 15:06 ` Dave Hansen
2021-03-31 8:24 ` Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <87lf9nk2ku.fsf@oldenburg.str.redhat.com>
2021-04-12 14:31 ` Borislav Petkov
2021-04-12 14:38 ` Florian Weimer
2021-04-12 15:08 ` Borislav Petkov
2021-04-12 15:10 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-04-12 15:21 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-04-12 23:46 ` Len Brown
2021-04-13 0:17 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-13 1:25 ` Len Brown
2021-04-13 3:43 ` Willy Tarreau
2021-04-13 19:51 ` Len Brown
2021-04-14 9:58 ` Borislav Petkov
2021-04-14 10:06 ` Willy Tarreau
2021-04-14 10:08 ` Borislav Petkov
2021-04-14 21:57 ` Len Brown
2021-04-15 4:43 ` Borislav Petkov
2021-04-15 5:29 ` Willy Tarreau
2021-04-15 5:47 ` Borislav Petkov
2021-04-16 22:05 ` Len Brown
2021-04-19 14:14 ` Borislav Petkov
2021-04-19 18:18 ` Len Brown
2021-04-19 19:15 ` Borislav Petkov
2021-04-19 21:33 ` Len Brown
2021-04-19 21:58 ` Borislav Petkov
2021-04-23 19:35 ` Len Brown
2021-04-23 19:57 ` Borislav Petkov
2021-05-02 15:27 ` Len Brown
2021-05-03 5:18 ` Florian Weimer
2021-05-03 13:43 ` Dave Hansen
2021-05-03 13:47 ` Florian Weimer
2021-05-03 14:14 ` Dave Hansen
2021-05-07 18:44 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-05-07 18:50 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-05-07 19:22 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-05-08 9:45 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-05-18 20:39 ` Len Brown
2021-05-19 23:29 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-05-20 19:16 ` Len Brown
2021-05-17 9:45 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-05-17 9:56 ` Florian Weimer
2021-05-17 10:18 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-05-21 16:29 ` Len Brown
2021-05-17 13:49 ` Arjan van de Ven
2021-05-20 15:35 ` Len Brown
2021-05-20 20:54 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-05-20 21:13 ` Dave Hansen
2021-05-20 21:41 ` Len Brown
2021-05-20 22:53 ` Dave Hansen
2021-05-21 9:41 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-05-21 14:44 ` Florian Weimer
2021-05-21 14:49 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-06-23 15:06 ` Florian Weimer
2021-06-23 23:11 ` Len Brown
2021-06-28 10:14 ` Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
2021-06-28 12:49 ` Florian Weimer
2021-06-30 12:22 ` Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
2021-06-30 12:41 ` Willy Tarreau
2021-06-30 13:55 ` Arjan van de Ven
2021-06-30 15:20 ` Len Brown
2021-06-30 15:25 ` Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
2021-05-21 16:14 ` Dave Hansen
2021-05-21 16:19 ` Florian Weimer
2021-05-21 16:26 ` Len Brown
2021-05-21 16:28 ` Dave Hansen
2021-05-21 16:31 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-05-21 19:10 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-05-21 20:07 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-05-21 21:43 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-05-21 22:07 ` Len Brown
2021-05-21 22:46 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-05-21 23:31 ` Len Brown
2021-05-22 7:16 ` Florian Weimer
2021-05-22 23:55 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-05-21 23:06 ` Dave Hansen
2021-05-21 23:08 ` Len Brown
2021-05-21 19:05 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-05-20 21:22 ` Len Brown
2021-05-20 21:41 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-05-20 21:49 ` Len Brown
2021-05-21 9:26 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-19 23:52 ` Paul Eggert
2021-04-13 20:16 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-04-13 22:47 ` Len Brown
2021-04-13 22:58 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-04-14 21:48 ` Len Brown
2021-04-15 16:24 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-04-15 17:00 ` Dave Hansen
2021-04-15 17:38 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-04-16 21:54 ` Len Brown
2021-04-16 22:03 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-04-16 22:10 ` Len Brown
2021-04-16 22:14 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-04-17 1:57 ` Len Brown
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