From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D540C433E6 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 2021 08:22:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF54423359 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 2021 08:22:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1727457AbhAMIWF (ORCPT ); Wed, 13 Jan 2021 03:22:05 -0500 Received: from mail-oi1-f169.google.com ([209.85.167.169]:43745 "EHLO mail-oi1-f169.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726921AbhAMIWE (ORCPT ); Wed, 13 Jan 2021 03:22:04 -0500 Received: by mail-oi1-f169.google.com with SMTP id q25so1235430oij.10; Wed, 13 Jan 2021 00:21:48 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ALKzS1zqUziBFoEG3hQOmy1+PfVqRE4pA7mKb1ctmGA=; b=jCh9UO83am14njMk8Zi/y+BGwS1RQFIfWyTI0FnYjEqmDFNToDTZzUcpwzV8wvKLKO yNISws1ISwochAJI3gwAZ3oezIk857sR91PfBcul4i6Q4ryT/RdeI/p0gpZ0FdcqaY25 RcYzFNIsl7M0QcoB3kn2kXVTz33JsI3Lk2g+1ygQfKshNZHJrImfLFrOAqPQJVdSjA2j QEt8DAQE6oDWjlvJpkWG13FDoYJ0U+VdeHklPI5gOe9bMBOhFjLCyQMcFxiyqib6n7h1 ZGznO8dwg2KxODTaC369jbh7gtDsKDl7MQlMfsANNutWLoaKvrKH6DtlXiF3Q24vjFlF IQyg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533trsSnYHinjnIsBcWI5qijdcsG1z+vhLN3BJr7dWlXglpljxQl ckR6cR/OkZdxwzNiEjwJvMcbVRR8CV1TUK2l5GEeGBzn X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyRX+4namPERjEdlnCAH4leUHIBxj0SFewD7BSelMI7Pc+tgIaD4qWQrFB6gXrTphwmN2Qmf2TQe+Q+MZw7w4w= X-Received: by 2002:aca:ec09:: with SMTP id k9mr516037oih.153.1610526083096; Wed, 13 Jan 2021 00:21:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Geert Uytterhoeven Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2021 09:21:10 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Old platforms: bring out your dead To: Rob Landley Cc: Linus Walleij , John Paul Adrian Glaubitz , Gerhard Pircher , Arnd Bergmann , Linux Kernel Mailing List , linux-m68k , Sparc kernel list , Linux-sh list Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Hi Rob, On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 8:58 AM Rob Landley wrote: > On 1/12/21 4:46 PM, Linus Walleij wrote: > > On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 3:45 PM John Paul Adrian Glaubitz > > wrote: > >> Yeah, I have the same impression that's the strong commercial interest pushes > >> hobbyist use of the Linux kernel a bit down. A lot of these changes feel like > >> they're motivated by corporate decisions. > >> > >> There has to be a healthy balance between hobbyist and commercial use. I understand > >> that from a commercial point of view, it doesn't make much sense to run Linux > >> on a 30-year-old computer. But it's a hobbyist project for many people and hacking > >> Linux stuff for these old machines has a very entertaining and educational factor. > > > > This is actually one of the most interesting things written in this discussion. > > > > I have both revamped and deleted subarchitectures in the ARM tree. We > > never deleted anyone's pet project *unless* they were clearly unwilling to > > work on it (such as simply testning new patches) and agreed that it will > > not go on. > > Another fun aspect of old hardware is it serves as prior art for patents. The > j-core hardware implementation schedule has in part been driven by specific > patents expiring, as in "we can't do $FEATURE until $DATE". Indeed, so that's why the release of j4 is postponed to 2016... /me runs date (again). > When I did an sh4 porting contract in 2018 I got that board updated to a > current-ish kernel (3 versions back from then-current it hit some intermittent > nor flash filesystem corruption that only occurred intermittently under > sustained load; had to ship so I backed off one version and never tracked it > down). But these days I'm not always on the same continent as my two actual sh4 > hardware boards, have never gotten my physical sh2 board to boot, and $DAYJOB is > all j-core stuff not sh4. Which is not upstream, investing in the future? > Testing that a basic superh system still builds and boots under qemu and j-core > I can commit to doing regularly. Testing specific hardware devices on boards I > don't regularly use is a lot harder. I have the sh7751-based landisk in my board farm, so it's receiving regular boot testing. That's one of the simpler SH-based platforms, though. Gr{oetje,eeting}s, Geert -- Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- geert@linux-m68k.org In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that. -- Linus Torvalds