RE: possible GPL violation by Sigma Designs

RE: possible GPL violation by Sigma Designs

[Iain Barker]

All,

I purchased a Liteon LVD2001 DVD player which uses this Sigma EM8500 chipset
and firmware running Linux. I wanted to compile kernel support for other
devices in the PCMCIA slot of this DVD player but source code for their
modified kernel is not provided.

This GPL violation of the Linux kernel was previously raised on LKML in
September http://lkml.org/lkml/2003/9/8/68  but nothing seems to have
happened since then, so I tried contacting the manufacturer directly.

The Sigma firmware is a binary-only distribution by Liteon, which includes a
modified port of the Linux 2.4 kernel, specifically ARM uClinux with
busybox. There are also two binary loadable modules for the hardware device
drivers (GPL status for these is unknown), plus some proprietary non-GPL DVD
player applications of no concern here.

Liteon has not included the GPL license or the source code (or offer of
source) for the Sigma Linux binaries they are distributing, so I contacted
them by email requesting the source code to these GPL components.

Below is the email I received back refusing to issue the source code.

I have sent a followup email to Liteon noting that providing GPL source code
is not optional, I also said I would pass on this information for the Linux
authors response, hence this LKML posting.

As the majority of the GPL code is from Linux, if any copyright holder wants
to follow up please email me direct and I'll forward you the complete
summary. Note that I've made no attempt at reverse engineering, the origins
of this code are all quite obvious from the earlier LKML thread.

regards.
Iain Barker


ps. I already sent the summary to GPL violations at GNU/FSF in case they are
interested in taking it further, but as Linux primarily isn't FSF copyright
I don't think they will be able to - only the copyright owners (authors of
Linux) have the ability to enforce the kernel GPL.


-----Original Message-----
From: DCTW_Service@liteonit.com
Sent: Thursday, 27 November, 2003 06:54
To: Iain Barker
Subject: Re: Liteon LVD firmware(source code)



Dear Sir,

Sorry to tell you that we don't provide the source code to user.
Please be noticed and thanks for your kindly understanding!

BR!

AW






-----Original Message-----
From: Iain Barker

Sent: 2003/11/23 11:35 AM
To:   dctw_service@liteonit.com
cc:

Subject:  Liteon LVD firmware





Dear Sir,

On your website are distribution images containing updated code for LVD
firmware.  http://www.liteonit.com/DC/english/images/zip/2001-0229.zip

The firmware CD image contains binaries for Linux kernel and other GNU
Public License (GPL) software. I find no source code or offer of source code
provided with the Liteon binary firmware images.

For all GPL licensed code you are required to provide source code, or an
offer for source code, along with the binary.

Please inform me where I can obtain the source code for the GPL portions of
Liteon software. This is Legally required to be provided by you, for binary
distribution purposes of GPL such as this product.

Details of the copyright and license distribution terms are here:
http://www.linux.org/info/gnu.html

I have summarised the appropriate section below for your convenience.

thankyou in advance.

Iain Barker
Liteon LVD 2001 customer



"
You may copy and distribute the Program or a work based on it ... in object
code or executable form ... provided that you also do one of the following:

a) Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source
code...; or,
b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to
give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically
performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the
corresponding source code...; or,
c) Accompany it with the information you received as to the offer to
distribute corresponding source code. (This alternative is allowed only for
noncommercial distribution and only if you received the program in object
code or executable form with such an offer...)
"

RE: possible GPL violation by Sigma Designs

[Benjamin Herrenschmidt]

On Sat, 2003-11-29 at 03:23, Iain Barker wrote:
> All,
> 
> I purchased a Liteon LVD2001 DVD player which uses this Sigma EM8500 chipset
> and firmware running Linux. I wanted to compile kernel support for other
> devices in the PCMCIA slot of this DVD player but source code for their
> modified kernel is not provided.

Just to make things clear, you should change the title of your emails
here to "possible GPL violation by Liteon". AFAIK, Sigma isn't involved
in the violation, they almost certainly provided a source code kernel
for their chipset to Liteon.

Ben.

Re: possible GPL violation by Sigma Designs

[Alexander Hoogerhuis]

Torgeir Veimo <torgeir@pobox.com> writes:

> Would writing a driver based on registers found by looking at the
> disassembled binary driver be considered a derivative work? Does it need
> to be done by a different person, acting as a proxy?
> 

Dunno, I've just read anough about it that I'd be careful looking at
the tray-table hinge on a flight through the US in case I'm
reverse-engineering a patented hinge by trying to understand how it
works ;)

> Torgeir Veimo <torgeir@pobox.com>

mvh,
A
-- 
Alexander Hoogerhuis                               | alexh@ihatent.com
CCNP - CCDP - MCNE - CCSE                          | +47 908 21 485
"You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it."  --Scott McNealy

Re: possible GPL violation by Sigma Designs

[Torgeir Veimo]

On Tue, 2003-09-09 at 14:49, Alexander Hoogerhuis wrote:
> Torgeir Veimo <torgeir@pobox.com> writes:
> 
> > More detailed information is available here: http://www.duke.edu/~java32/bravo/bravohacking.html
> > 
> 
> Not poking my nose too far in here, but what about 'Dat Magnificently
> Crafted Act? :)

Would writing a driver based on registers found by looking at the
disassembled binary driver be considered a derivative work? Does it need
to be done by a different person, acting as a proxy?

-- 
Torgeir Veimo <torgeir@pobox.com>

Re: possible GPL violation by Sigma Designs

[Alexander Hoogerhuis]

Torgeir Veimo <torgeir@pobox.com> writes:

> More detailed information is available here: http://www.duke.edu/~java32/bravo/bravohacking.html 
> 

Not poking my nose too far in here, but what about 'Dat Magnificently
Crafted Act? :)

> -- 
> Torgeir Veimo <torgeir@pobox.com>
> 
mvh,
A
-- 
Alexander Hoogerhuis                               | alexh@ihatent.com
CCNP - CCDP - MCNE - CCSE                          | +47 908 21 485
"You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it."  --Scott McNealy

Re: possible GPL violation by Sigma Designs

[Torgeir Veimo]

More detailed information is available here: http://www.duke.edu/~java32/bravo/bravohacking.html 

-- 
Torgeir Veimo <torgeir@pobox.com>

Re: possible GPL violation by Sigma Designs

[Torgeir Veimo]

On Mon, 2003-09-08 at 13:33, Alan Cox wrote:
> On Llu, 2003-09-08 at 02:49, Torgeir Veimo wrote:
> > The Sigma Designs EM8500 is apparently a combined mpeg4 decoder and RISC
> > processor. I'd assume that they would be required to release source code
> > on request for their kernel, even if the code is executed on the EM8500
> > directly, as opposed being controller by a kernel driver running on a
> > separate processor?
> 
> If the EM8500 is running a linux kernel then they need to state that
> provide the offer of source code or provide the source and obey the GPL.
> I'd suspect if it runs Linux on the 8500 it runs Linux + apps and the
> interesting DVD stuff is the apps not the kernel however 8)

The romfs filesystem has a linux.bin.z kernel file, fipmodule.o and a
khwl.o file, both of which I think are modules. The khwl.o file seems to
be the driver. `strings khwl.o` reveals among other things:

(hwl0)minor_ioctl: REALMAGICHWL_IOCTL_CLEAR_MODULE_USE_COUNT done.
(hwl0)minor_ioctl: process %d enters (case %d) ----------------
(hwl0)minor_ioctl: unknown ioctl or feature not supported (see
REALMAGICHWL_FEATURES)
(hwl0)minor_ioctl: process %d leaves (case %d, return %d) ------
(hwl0)open done by %d (user count #%d)
(hwl0)close done by %d (user count #%d)
(hwl#)init_module: begun
realmagichwl0
(hwl#)init_module: devfs_register failed
(hwl#)init_module: device (%d:%d) registered in devfs
(hwl#)init_module: found JASPER
(hwl#)cleanup_module: begun
(hwl#)cleanup_module: done
...
DICOM_PackedPicBuf
Decoder_Config
Force_PanScanDefHorSize
...
Audio_PTSFifo
Audio_PTSSize
Audio_PTSRdPtr
Audio_Dec_Mode
Audio_CompDualOCfg_Mode
Audio_DynamicRange

The player is a file called mpegplayer.bin. 

uClinux supports module loading, doesn't it?
 
-- 
Torgeir Veimo <torgeir@pobox.com>

Re: possible GPL violation by Sigma Designs

[Alan Cox]

On Llu, 2003-09-08 at 02:49, Torgeir Veimo wrote:
> The Sigma Designs EM8500 is apparently a combined mpeg4 decoder and RISC
> processor. I'd assume that they would be required to release source code
> on request for their kernel, even if the code is executed on the EM8500
> directly, as opposed being controller by a kernel driver running on a
> separate processor?

If the EM8500 is running a linux kernel then they need to state that
provide the offer of source code or provide the source and obey the GPL.
I'd suspect if it runs Linux on the 8500 it runs Linux + apps and the
interesting DVD stuff is the apps not the kernel however 8)

Re: possible GPL violation by Sigma Designs

[Russell King]

On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 10:25:36AM +0200, Jose Luis Domingo Lopez wrote:
> http://www.rimax.net/docs/UpdateRimaxDivX.zip

This one seems to be based on the ARM uClinux 2.4.17-uc0.

-- 
Russell King (rmk@arm.linux.org.uk)	http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/personal/
Linux kernel maintainer of:
  2.6 ARM Linux   - http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
  2.6 PCMCIA      - http://pcmcia.arm.linux.org.uk/
  2.6 Serial core

Re: possible GPL violation by Sigma Designs

[Jose Luis Domingo Lopez]

On Monday, 08 September 2003, at 02:49:02 +0100,
Torgeir Veimo wrote:

> The firmware for the Bravo D1 DVD player can be downloaded as an ISO
> image from this page; http://www.vinc.com/support_faq.asp
> 
Just for completeness, there is a number of other products available,
that seem to be nearly identical to each other, because they are built
around the same set of chips. Some URL for the firmwares:
http://www.woxter.com/woxter/productos/woxter_xdiv_player_upgrade108-1.0.0.20.zip
http://www.liteonit.com/DC/english/images/zip/1001-1145.zip
http://www.rimax.net/docs/UpdateRimaxDivX.zip

-- 
Jose Luis Domingo Lopez
Linux Registered User #189436     Debian Linux Sid (Linux 2.6.0-test4-mm4)

possible GPL violation by Sigma Designs

[Torgeir Veimo]

DVD players based on Sigma Designs EM8500 mpeg4 decoder seems to be
running uClinux. See here for some info:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=288489

The Sigma Designs EM8500 is apparently a combined mpeg4 decoder and RISC
processor. I'd assume that they would be required to release source code
on request for their kernel, even if the code is executed on the EM8500
directly, as opposed being controller by a kernel driver running on a
separate processor?

The firmware for the Bravo D1 DVD player can be downloaded as an ISO
image from this page; http://www.vinc.com/support_faq.asp

-- 
Torgeir Veimo <torgeir@pobox.com>