From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S264162AbTDJUjX (for ); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:39:23 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S264165AbTDJUjX (for ); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:39:23 -0400 Received: from chaos.analogic.com ([204.178.40.224]:12679 "EHLO chaos.analogic.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S264162AbTDJUjW (for ); Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:39:22 -0400 Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:53:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Richard B. Johnson" X-X-Sender: root@chaos Reply-To: root@chaos.analogic.com To: Trond Myklebust cc: Alan Cox , Frank Davis , Linux Kernel Mailing List Subject: Re: kernel support for non-english user messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <3E93A958.80107@si.rr.com> <20030409080803.GC29167@mea-ext.zmailer.org> <20030409080803.GC29167@mea-ext.zmailer.org> <20030409190700.H19288@almesberger.net> <3E94A1B4.6020602@si.rr.com> <1050001030.12494.1.camel@dhcp22.swansea.linux.org.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Thu, 10 Apr 2003, Trond Myklebust wrote: > >>>>> " " == Alan Cox writes: > > > VMS is alive and well, even though Compaq tried to kill > > it. There is a lot of anti-VMS stuff in the Unix world mostly > > coming from the _horrible_ command line and other bad early > > memories. There is also a hell of a lot of really cool stuff > > under that command line we could and should learn from. > > The day I wake up and see one of my processes in the "RWAST" state is > the day I move to a BSD clone 8-) > > Which features in particular were you thinking would be worth porting? > > Cheers, > Trond > Once a year I get up enough nerve to boot my VAXen at home. One is a uVAX-II which even has SCSI with some DEC snail disks. The uVAX-II takes about 45 to 50 minutes to boot and it's really quite amazing to watch it do all that difficult stuff, with all its intermediate progress messages being written to the screen when it's booting VMS. But sometimes, just for kicks, I boot Ultrix (Unix) on the second drive. It takes only 4 minutes and doesn't waste time with all those "progress" messages. Now, Linux has already gotten to be like VMS with all those "progress" messages displayed while it's booting. It's really quite annoying, and it scares the hell out of users that are graduating from Windows. Anything that further legitimizes those progress messages (like translation) should never be implemented. When somebody is writing a driver, if they have any experience, they write debugging messages in their native language. But, once the driver is written, these debugging messages should be removed or #defined out. A properly functioning driver should never complain about anything. It shouldn't do anything like you see when you execute `dmesg`. The only time you should see information is if there's trouble. And trouble with software should be fixed immediately so you never have to encounter messages because software didn't work. So, you are left will hardware messages like your SCSI disk didn't come on-line, or you are out of disk-space. For so few messages, you don't need translation, certainly not in the kernel. Just Babel-fish it and away you go. Cheers, Dick Johnson Penguin : Linux version 2.4.20 on an i686 machine (797.90 BogoMips). Why is the government concerned about the lunatic fringe? Think about it.