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From: Davide Libenzi <davidel@xmailserver.org>
To: Daniel Phillips <phillips@arcor.de>
Cc: Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: 2.5.74-mm1
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:48:36 -0700 (PDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.55.0307072314490.3597@bigblue.dev.mcafeelabs.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <200307080307.18018.phillips@arcor.de>

On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Daniel Phillips wrote:

> 1. 400ms buffers are hated by users, as was noted previously.  They are
> passable for some applications, but way too laggy for others.
>
> 2. Even if you are will to have a 400-500 ms buffer, if you can prove that you
> will always meet that deadline, then it's a realtime system.
>
> 3. If you can show logically that you will nearly always meet the deadline,
> it's a soft realtime system.  That's what we're after here.  From a design
> standpoint, there are elegant soft realtime systems, and there are sucky
> ones.
>
> 4. So how do you propose to "program timings" so that it's really hard to miss
> those deadlines?

Having a backup of 400-500ms gives you an average hang-over of 200-250ms
that are hardly noticeable by a human in this topic. The issue is not if
you always meet the deadline, the issue is what amount of load will make
you miss it. If I have to hire five ppl clicking and dragging on my desktop
to make my player to skip, and it skips, I don't care if it missed the
deadline. This because my desktop will hardly see that load. But if you
have a 50-100ms backup, things turns out to be a little bit different.
If you pretend to run a `make -jUNREAL` and still have the audio not
skipping it is simply wrong. Running a `make -j20` in my machine shows an
average of 24 TASK_RUNNING tasks, that even if they're granted with a mere
40ms timeslice, it'll take a full second before an expired task will see
the light again. BTW, under such load RealPlayer skips badly, but I don't
really care since it never did while I was doing all the normal (and many
extra) stuff I'm doing on my desktop.




- Davide


  reply	other threads:[~2003-07-08  7:41 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 147+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-07-03  9:37 2.5.74-mm1 Andrew Morton
2003-07-03 10:37 ` 2.5.74-mm1 Wiktor Wodecki
2003-07-03 11:06   ` 2.5.74-mm1 Russell King
2003-07-03 14:15     ` 2.5.74-mm1 Russell King
2003-07-03 16:05       ` 2.5.74-mm1 Patrick Mochel
2003-07-03 16:19         ` 2.5.74-mm1 Russell King
2003-07-03 16:24           ` 2.5.74-mm1 Patrick Mochel
2003-07-03 16:47       ` 2.5.74-mm1 Wiktor Wodecki
2003-07-03 18:43       ` 2.5.74-mm1 Serge Eric Thiam
2003-07-03 21:49       ` 2.5.74-mm1 Wiktor Wodecki
2003-07-03 21:53         ` 2.5.74-mm1 Russell King
2003-07-03 22:12           ` 2.5.74-mm1 Patrick Mochel
2003-07-03 22:14         ` 2.5.74-mm1 Russell King
2003-07-04  8:00           ` 2.5.74-mm1 Wiktor Wodecki
2003-07-03 11:27   ` pcmcia problem [was: Re: 2.5.74-mm1] Wiktor Wodecki
2003-07-03 10:45 ` 2.5.74-mm1 (p4-clockmod does not compile) Dumitru Ciobarcianu
2003-07-03 11:07   ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-03 11:17     ` Dumitru Ciobarcianu
2003-07-03 11:20       ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-03 11:32         ` 2.5.74-mm1 (p4-clockmod does not compile) PATCH Dumitru Ciobarcianu
2003-07-07  5:24         ` 2.5.74-mm1 (p4-clockmod does not compile) Zwane Mwaikambo
2003-07-07  5:47           ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-03 13:15 ` o1-interactivity.patch (was Re: 2.5.74-mm1) Sean Neakums
2003-07-03 13:30   ` Con Kolivas
2003-07-03 16:02 ` 2.5.74-mm1 Felipe Alfaro Solana
2003-07-03 18:11 ` 2.5.74-mm1 Pasi Savolainen
2003-07-03 20:25 ` 2.5.74-mm1 William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-03 20:48   ` 2.5.74-mm1 William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-04  8:55 ` 2.5.74-mm1 fails to boot due to APIC trouble, 2.5.73mm3 works Helge Hafting
2003-07-04  8:53   ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-04  9:35   ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-04  9:50     ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-04 10:02       ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-04 10:07         ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-04 11:12           ` Helge Hafting
2003-07-04 11:10             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-04 12:50             ` Vincent Hanquez
2003-07-04 15:41       ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-07-04 15:47         ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2003-07-04 16:18           ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-07-04 16:16             ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2003-07-04 18:31             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-04 19:20               ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-07-04 19:31                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-04 19:53                   ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-07-04 20:17                     ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-04 18:32             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-04 18:36             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-04 18:29           ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-04 18:26         ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-04 19:38           ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-07-04 20:07             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-04 20:37               ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-07-04 21:07 ` 2.5.74-mm1 William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-05  1:15   ` 2.5.74-mm1 Andrew Morton
2003-07-05  5:21     ` 2.5.74-mm1 Anton Blanchard
2003-07-05 11:18       ` 2.5.74-mm1 William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-05 11:46         ` 2.5.74-mm1 William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-05 10:44     ` 2.5.74-mm1 William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-05 18:43       ` 2.5.74-mm1 Andrew Morton
2003-07-05 21:17         ` 2.5.74-mm1 William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-05 21:27           ` 2.5.74-mm1 Andrew Morton
2003-07-05 22:03             ` 2.5.74-mm1 William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-05  0:16 ` 2.5.74-mm1 Daniel Phillips
2003-07-05 15:28   ` 2.5.74-mm1 Daniel Phillips
2003-07-05 16:01     ` 2.5.74-mm1 Con Kolivas
2003-07-05 17:47       ` 2.5.74-mm1 Daniel Phillips
2003-07-06  3:41         ` 2.5.74-mm1 Con Kolivas
2003-07-06 18:50           ` 2.5.74-mm1 Daniel Phillips
2003-07-05 19:14     ` 2.5.74-mm1 Andrew Morton
2003-07-05 21:09       ` 2.5.74-mm1 Daniel Phillips
2003-07-05 21:44         ` 2.5.74-mm1 Jamie Lokier
2003-07-05 22:10           ` 2.5.74-mm1 Daniel Phillips
2003-07-06  1:28             ` 2.5.74-mm1 Jamie Lokier
2003-07-06  2:14               ` 2.5.74-mm1 Daniel Phillips
2003-07-06  2:21                 ` 2.5.74-mm1 Davide Libenzi
2003-07-06 13:54                   ` 2.5.74-mm1 Daniel Phillips
2003-07-07 10:00                 ` 2.5.74-mm1 Mel Gorman
2003-07-07 12:24                   ` 2.5.74-mm1 Daniel Phillips
2003-07-07 13:09                     ` 2.5.74-mm1 Alex Riesen
2003-07-07 14:33                       ` 2.5.74-mm1 Daniel Phillips
2003-07-07 14:34                         ` 2.5.74-mm1 Alex Riesen
2003-07-07 13:16                     ` 2.5.74-mm1 Mel Gorman
2003-07-07 14:47                       ` 2.5.74-mm1 Davide Libenzi
2003-07-07 15:23                         ` 2.5.74-mm1 Jamie Lokier
2003-07-07 17:25                           ` 2.5.74-mm1 Davide Libenzi
2003-07-07 17:55                             ` 2.5.74-mm1 Daniel Phillips
2003-07-07 18:36                               ` 2.5.74-mm1 Davide Libenzi
2003-07-07 19:07                                 ` 2.5.74-mm1 Daniel Phillips
2003-07-07 22:03                                   ` 2.5.74-mm1 Davide Libenzi
2003-07-08  0:13                                     ` 2.5.74-mm1 Daniel Phillips
2003-07-08  0:29                                       ` 2.5.74-mm1 Davide Libenzi
2003-07-08  1:07                                         ` 2.5.74-mm1 Daniel Phillips
2003-07-08  7:48                                           ` Davide Libenzi [this message]
2003-07-08  9:18                                             ` 2.5.74-mm1 Nick Piggin
2003-07-08 15:24                                               ` 2.5.74-mm1 Davide Libenzi
2003-07-09  0:36                                                 ` 2.5.74-mm1 Nick Piggin
2003-07-08 11:09                                             ` 2.5.74-mm1 Daniel Phillips
2003-07-08 18:19                                               ` 2.5.74-mm1 Davide Libenzi
2003-07-08 19:12                                                 ` 2.5.74-mm1 Davide Libenzi
2003-07-07 19:39                                 ` 2.5.74-mm1 Jamie Lokier
2003-07-07 19:36                             ` 2.5.74-mm1 Jamie Lokier
2003-07-09 22:17                               ` 2.5.74-mm1 Daniel Phillips
2003-07-09 22:24                                 ` 2.5.74-mm1 Jamie Lokier
2003-07-09 22:29                                   ` 2.5.74-mm1 Davide Libenzi
2003-07-09 23:15                                     ` 2.5.74-mm1 Daniel Phillips
2003-07-09 23:19                                       ` 2.5.74-mm1 Jamie Lokier
2003-07-09 22:59                                   ` 2.5.74-mm1 Daniel Phillips
2003-07-10  2:01                                     ` 2.5.74-mm1 Peter Chubb
2003-07-11  1:04                                       ` 2.5.74-mm1 Daniel Phillips
2003-07-11  1:08                                         ` 2.5.74-mm1 William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-11  5:44                                         ` 2.5.74-mm1 Davide Libenzi
2003-07-11  8:07                                           ` 2.5.74-mm1 Daniel Phillips
2003-07-07 15:28                         ` 2.5.74-mm1 Daniel Phillips
2003-07-07 17:58                           ` 2.5.74-mm1 Davide Libenzi
     [not found]                     ` <Pine.LNX.4.55.0307070745250.4428@bigblue.dev.mcafeelabs.co m>
2003-07-07 17:15                       ` 2.5.74-mm1 Mike Galbraith
2003-07-05 22:11         ` 2.5.74-mm1 Diego Calleja García
2003-07-05 23:31           ` 2.5.74-mm1 Daniel Phillips
2003-07-06  0:23             ` 2.5.74-mm1 Diego Calleja García
2003-07-06 22:59               ` 2.5.74-mm1 Jamie Lokier
2003-07-06  2:29           ` 2.5.74-mm1 Davide Libenzi
2003-07-06  0:10       ` 2.5.74-mm1 Daniel Phillips
2003-07-06  0:10         ` 2.5.74-mm1 Davide Libenzi
2003-07-05 19:40     ` 2.5.74-mm1 Diego Calleja García
2003-07-05 19:48       ` 2.5.74-mm1 Davide Libenzi
2003-07-05 21:22       ` 2.5.74-mm1 Daniel Phillips
2003-07-07 13:38 ` OOPS: 2.5.74-mm2 Maciej Soltysiak
2003-07-03 10:39 2.5.74-mm1 Boszormenyi Zoltan
2003-07-03 13:09 ` 2.5.74-mm1 Boszormenyi Zoltan
2003-07-03 19:22   ` 2.5.74-mm1 Andrew Morton
2003-07-03 20:08     ` 2.5.74-mm1 Helge Hafting
2003-07-03 21:15       ` 2.5.74-mm1 Andrew Morton
2003-07-04  5:53         ` 2.5.74-mm1 William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-04  7:12           ` 2.5.74-mm1 Boszormenyi Zoltan
2003-07-04  7:16             ` 2.5.74-mm1 Zwane Mwaikambo
2003-07-04  7:15           ` 2.5.74-mm1 Zwane Mwaikambo
2003-07-04  7:50             ` 2.5.74-mm1 Zwane Mwaikambo
2003-07-04  8:27             ` 2.5.74-mm1 Andrew Morton
2003-07-04  8:37               ` 2.5.74-mm1 Zwane Mwaikambo
2003-07-04  8:56                 ` 2.5.74-mm1 Andrew Morton
2003-07-04  8:57                   ` 2.5.74-mm1 William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-04  8:52               ` 2.5.74-mm1 William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-04 20:00         ` 2.5.74-mm1 Helge Hafting
2003-07-04 20:08           ` 2.5.74-mm1 William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-03 22:26       ` 2.5.74-mm1 William Lee Irwin III
2003-07-03 23:01         ` 2.5.74-mm1 Zwane Mwaikambo
2003-07-03 23:16     ` 2.5.74-mm1 William Lee Irwin III

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