From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>
To: Alexandre Oliva <aoliva@redhat.com>
Cc: Paul Mackerras <paulus@samba.org>, Greg KH <greg@kroah.com>,
David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org>,
Matthew Wilcox <matthew@wil.cx>,
David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
hch@infradead.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
libc-hacker@sources.redhat.com
Subject: Re: [RFC] Splitting kernel headers and deprecating __KERNEL__
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:00:17 -0800 (PST) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0411291458040.22796@ppc970.osdl.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <oract0thnj.fsf@livre.redhat.lsd.ic.unicamp.br>
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, Alexandre Oliva wrote:
>
> I don't see it as obvious at all. The need for an agreement between
> two parties on an ABI doesn't imply that one party gets to define it
> and the other gets to follow it.
Sorry, but that's not how it works.
He who writes the code decides what it is. In this case, if the kernel
does a new extension, it's the kernel that gets to decide what it is.
Full stop.
If glibc wants to do something new, go wild. The kernel won't care.
And that's really the fundamental issue. The kernel does not care what
user land does. The kernel exports functionality, the kernel does _not_
ask user land to help.
That _does_ make it a one-way street. Sorry.
Linus
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2004-11-29 23:08 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 185+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2004-11-25 15:13 [RFC] Splitting kernel headers and deprecating __KERNEL__ David Howells
2004-11-25 15:23 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-25 16:54 ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-25 18:17 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27 3:24 ` Greg KH
2004-11-28 23:37 ` Paul Mackerras
2004-11-29 1:28 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-29 4:36 ` Jeff Garzik
2004-11-29 4:57 ` Al Viro
2004-11-29 5:27 ` Tim Hockin
2004-11-29 7:51 ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-12-05 0:49 ` Rob Landley
2004-12-05 2:26 ` Andries Brouwer
2004-12-05 13:19 ` David Greaves
2004-12-05 15:57 ` Andries Brouwer
2004-12-05 23:05 ` Rob Landley
2004-12-06 9:56 ` Andries Brouwer
2004-11-29 9:42 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-30 8:08 ` Alex Riesen
2004-11-30 8:57 ` Alex Riesen
2004-12-01 11:46 ` Ralf Baechle
2004-12-02 1:21 ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-11-29 9:53 ` Paul Mackerras
2004-11-29 9:57 ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-11-29 10:01 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-29 11:41 ` Mariusz Mazur
2004-11-29 17:09 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-29 17:41 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-29 22:44 ` Al Viro
2004-12-01 11:36 ` Roman Zippel
[not found] ` <oract0thnj.fsf@livre.redhat.lsd.ic.unicamp.br>
2004-11-29 23:00 ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2004-11-30 0:45 ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-11-30 5:31 ` Herbert Poetzl
2004-11-30 6:44 ` bert hubert
2004-11-30 21:22 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 22:22 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 22:57 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 23:12 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-01 19:41 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-12-01 19:54 ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-12-02 3:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-02 4:28 ` Bernd Eckenfels
2004-12-02 5:11 ` Peter Williams
2004-12-02 11:30 ` Tomas Carnecky
2004-12-02 22:17 ` Peter Williams
2004-12-02 9:29 ` Pekka Enberg
2004-12-02 15:35 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-02 21:46 ` Pekka Enberg
2004-11-30 15:35 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-30 15:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 16:28 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-30 16:53 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 17:52 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-30 18:21 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 20:28 ` Mariusz Mazur
2004-11-30 20:47 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 22:33 ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-11-30 22:44 ` Mariusz Mazur
2004-11-30 23:03 ` Al Viro
2004-11-30 23:08 ` Mariusz Mazur
2004-12-01 5:23 ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-12-01 10:52 ` Mariusz Mazur
2004-12-01 18:08 ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-11-30 23:13 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 23:36 ` Chris Friesen
2004-12-01 5:50 ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-11-30 22:48 ` Matt Mackall
2004-11-30 22:51 ` Christoph Hellwig
2004-11-30 23:09 ` Chris Friesen
2004-11-30 23:35 ` Matt Mackall
2004-12-01 0:23 ` Miquel van Smoorenburg
2004-11-30 22:55 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 23:29 ` Matt Mackall
2004-12-03 1:03 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2004-11-30 23:51 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-30 17:55 ` Al Viro
2004-11-30 16:33 ` David Howells
2004-11-30 16:57 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 15:33 ` David Howells
2004-11-30 15:51 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 20:47 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 20:56 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 21:30 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 21:39 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 23:33 ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-30 22:25 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 22:34 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-30 22:51 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 23:50 ` David Woodhouse
2004-12-01 0:10 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-01 0:18 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-01 8:10 ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-12-01 0:24 ` David Woodhouse
2004-12-01 0:37 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-01 0:47 ` David Woodhouse
2004-12-01 0:57 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-01 1:06 ` David Woodhouse
2004-12-01 1:23 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-01 6:48 ` BAIN
2004-12-01 2:02 ` cdrom.h (was Re: [RFC] Splitting kernel headers...) Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-30 22:52 ` [RFC] Splitting kernel headers and deprecating __KERNEL__ Mariusz Mazur
2004-11-30 23:05 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 23:05 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 16:18 ` David Howells
2004-12-14 5:51 ` Werner Almesberger
2004-12-14 15:49 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-14 16:50 ` Werner Almesberger
2004-12-14 17:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-14 21:46 ` Werner Almesberger
2004-12-14 21:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-14 23:49 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2004-12-15 0:09 ` Werner Almesberger
2004-12-16 0:58 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2004-12-14 19:23 ` Horst von Brand
2004-12-14 19:45 ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-12-14 19:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-14 20:25 ` Andreas Schwab
2004-12-14 20:33 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-14 16:55 ` Andreas Schwab
2004-12-14 17:59 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-27 20:39 ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-11-25 18:20 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-25 21:01 ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-25 22:35 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-26 11:42 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-27 0:13 ` Andreas Steinmetz
2004-11-27 0:26 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27 0:30 ` Andreas Steinmetz
2004-11-27 0:38 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-26 11:47 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-26 11:53 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27 16:12 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2004-11-26 11:58 ` David Howells
2004-11-26 12:00 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-26 14:19 ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-26 14:33 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27 12:10 ` Alexander Stohr
2004-11-27 3:46 ` Adam Heath
2004-11-30 12:18 ` Horst von Brand
2004-11-29 16:34 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-25 18:45 ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-26 11:52 ` David Howells
2004-11-26 23:56 ` Grzegorz Kulewski
2004-11-27 1:27 ` Tomas Carnecky
2004-11-27 1:41 ` Grzegorz Kulewski
2004-11-27 2:03 ` Tomas Carnecky
2004-11-27 3:07 ` Kyle Moffett
2004-11-27 4:29 ` Tonnerre
2004-11-27 3:51 ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-27 16:47 ` Randy.Dunlap
2004-11-27 17:16 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27 22:53 ` Arnd Bergmann
2004-11-27 23:12 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27 23:27 ` Randy.Dunlap
2004-11-27 23:32 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27 23:56 ` Arnd Bergmann
2004-11-28 7:13 ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-11-28 12:03 ` Arnd Bergmann
2004-11-28 12:19 ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-11-28 16:34 ` Kevin Puetz
2004-11-28 12:28 ` Wichert Akkerman
2004-11-28 12:44 ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-11-28 16:21 ` Jakub Jelinek
2004-11-28 7:20 ` Christoph Hellwig
2004-11-27 4:05 ` Chris Friesen
2004-11-27 4:30 ` Tomas Carnecky
2004-11-27 21:03 ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-11-27 21:11 ` Andreas Steinmetz
2004-11-27 21:19 ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-11-27 21:49 ` Andreas Steinmetz
2004-11-27 23:21 ` Arnd Bergmann
2004-11-28 13:24 ` Andreas Steinmetz
2004-11-28 13:40 ` Arnd Bergmann
2004-11-29 11:08 ` David Howells
2004-11-29 20:01 ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-11-30 0:34 ` Kyle Moffett
2004-11-30 0:51 ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-12-14 7:07 ` Werner Almesberger
2004-11-27 19:43 Dan Kegel
2004-11-27 21:06 ` Sam Ravnborg
[not found] <34Xo6-2P0-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <35i9f-2vZ-25@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <35iLS-2Uo-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <35kb6-46Q-25@gated-at.bofh.it>
2004-11-28 0:55 ` ak
2004-11-28 13:32 ` Arnd Bergmann
2004-11-30 1:43 Jean Tourrilhes
2004-11-30 4:22 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 6:51 ` H. Peter Anvin
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