From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S261276AbVBGTxC (ORCPT ); Mon, 7 Feb 2005 14:53:02 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S261296AbVBGTve (ORCPT ); Mon, 7 Feb 2005 14:51:34 -0500 Received: from alog0241.analogic.com ([208.224.222.17]:17280 "EHLO chaos.analogic.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S261281AbVBGTi4 (ORCPT ); Mon, 7 Feb 2005 14:38:56 -0500 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 14:35:33 -0500 (EST) From: linux-os Reply-To: linux-os@analogic.com To: jerome lacoste cc: Chris Friesen , Lee Revell , Kyle Moffett , Pavel Roskin , Joseph Pingenot , Patrick Mochel , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Greg Kroah-Hartman Subject: Re: Please open sysfs symbols to proprietary modules In-Reply-To: <5a2cf1f6050207105874260920@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <20050203000917.GA12204@digitasaru.net> <692795D1-758E-11D9-9D77-000393ACC76E@mac.com> <1107674683.3532.26.camel@krustophenia.net> <420791D7.3020408@nortel.com> <5a2cf1f6050207105874260920@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Mon, 7 Feb 2005, jerome lacoste wrote: > On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 11:55:31 -0500 (EST), linux-os wrote: >> On Mon, 7 Feb 2005, Chris Friesen wrote: >> >>> Lee Revell wrote: >>>> On Wed, 2005-02-02 at 21:50 -0500, Kyle Moffett wrote: >>>> >>>>> It's not like somebody will have >>>>> some innate commercial advantage over you because they have your >>>>> driver source code. >>>> >>>> >>>> For a hardware vendor that's not a very compelling argument. Especially >>>> compared to what their IP lawyers are telling them. >>>> >>>> Got anything to back it up? >>> >>> I have a friend who works for a company that does reverse-engineering of ICs. >>> Companies hire them to figure out how their competitor's chips work. This is >>> the real threat to hardware manufacturers, not publishing the chip specs. >>> >>> Having driver code gives you the interface to the device. That can be >>> reverse-engineered from watching bus traces or disassembling binary drivers >>> (which is how many linux drivers were originally written). Companies have >>> these kinds of resources. >>> >>> If you look at the big chip manufacturers (TI, Maxim, Analog Devices, etc.) >>> they publish specs on everything. It would be nice if others did the same. >>> >>> Chris >> >> I also have first-hand knowledge. Once there was a company called >> Data Precision. Just point your favorite search-engine to that >> name. They were a wholly owned subsidiary of Analogic. They >> no longer exist. Data Precision would take a year or more >> to develop a product. Six weeks after it was available on >> the market, it would have been cloned by Pacific-rim companies >> and dumped into the US at below US manufacturing cost. >> [..] > > Shouldn't you be able to use legal action against companies that > provide such clones (at least in your country)? You could maybe even > sue the local resellers for participating to the fraud. > > J > Sure, but the window of opportunity necessary for sales has been lost. That's how these thieves live. They start a company with the secret backing of a mother-ship like (name any Pacific rim company). They clone the US product. Then they sell and ship. Once a distribution problem exists, of any kind BTW, the company disappears. The local resellers know only that a lower cost thingy, that worked just as good as the US advertised box, became available that allowed them to serve their customers at a lower cost, while improving the distributors profit. These are all altruistic. There is no avenue for a lawsuit here. FYI, in the 60s you could buy "transistor radios" made in USA. They were made in Usa, Japan, and they carried a "RCA Victrola" label. Everything was designed to deceive, including the name of a city that was incorporated solely to deceive Americans at a time when Americans were being taught to buy American products. Cheers, Dick Johnson Penguin : Linux version 2.6.10 on an i686 machine (5537.79 BogoMips). Notice : All mail here is now cached for review by Dictator Bush. 98.36% of all statistics are fiction.