linux-kernel.vger.kernel.org archive mirror
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>
To: "Jörn Engel" <joern@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>
Cc: Lennart Sorensen <lsorense@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>,
	Chase Venters <chase.venters@clientec.com>,
	Sergey Panov <sipan@sipan.org>,
	Patrick McFarland <diablod3@gmail.com>,
	Theodore Tso <tytso@mit.edu>, Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@linux01.gwdg.de>,
	James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@steeleye.com>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: GPLv3 Position Statement
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:04:13 -0700 (PDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0609280748500.3952@g5.osdl.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20060928144028.GA21814@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>

[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 3303 bytes --]



On Thu, 28 Sep 2006, Jörn Engel wrote:
> 
> And I assume (careful, I'm _really_ uninformed here) the FSF is well
> aware of that and wants a one-way compatibility between v2 and v3.
> Any v2 code can be picked up by a v3 project, but not the other way
> around.  v3 projects have a clear evolutionary advantage over v2.

A _real_ v2 project doesn't have that problem. In fact, I'm a huge 
believer in evolution (not in the sense that "it happened" - anybody who 
doesn't believe that is either uninformed or crazy, but in the sense "the 
processes of evolution are really fundamental, and should probably be at 
least _thought_ about in pretty much any context").

And I think the v2 is actually _more_ stable in an evolutionary sense 
(look up Maynard Smith and "ESS" - "Evolutionarily Stable Strategy" - for 
more ideas about the biological evolution case) exactly because it's more 
inclusive - it handles more cases.

The GPLv3 is a dead end in some areas, exactly because it limits how the 
project can be used, and as such will automatically limit itself away from 
some niches. Also, because I believe that it's less "universally 
acceptable", it has a harder time competing anyway.

And the GPLv2 and GPLv3 really _are_ mutually incompatible. There is 
absolutely nothing in the GPLv2 that is inherently compatible with the 
GPLv3, and the _only_ way you can mix code is if you explicitly 
dual-license it.

Ie, GPLv2 and GPLv3 are compatible only the same way GPLv2 is compatible 
with a commercial proprietary license: they are compatible only if you 
release the code under a dual license. 

The whole "or later" phrase is legally _no_ different at all from a dual 
licensing (it's just more open-ended, and you don't know what the "or 
later" will be, so you're basically saying that you trust the FSF 
implicitly).

> And here the kernel wording with "v2 only" in the kernel is
> interesting.

No. I _really_ want to clarify this, because so many people get it wrong. 
Really.

The "GPLv2 only" wording is really just a clarification. You don't need it 
for the project to be "GPLv2 only".

If a project says: "This code is licensed under this copyright license" 
and then goes on to quote the GPLv2, then IT IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THE 
GPLv3!

Or if you just say "I license my code under the GPLv2", IT IS NOT 
COMPATIBLE WITH THE GPLv3.

Really. There is zero inherent compatibility. The GPLv2 is written (on 
purpose) to not be compatible with _anything_ but itself. If you want your 
code to be compatible with anything else, you have to explicitly say so. 
In other words, you have to dual-license it, and _keep_ it dual-licensed.

> So the evolutionary advantage is lost, as it only exists through the "v2 
> or later" term.

Exactly. The GPLv3 can _only_ take over a GPLv2 project if the "or later" 
exists.

It should also be pointed out that even a "GPLv2 or later" project can be 
forked two different ways: you can turn it into a "GPLv3" (with perhaps a 
"or later" added too) project, but you can _equally_ turn it into a "GPLv2 
only" project.

In other words, even if the license says "GPLv2 or later", the GPLv3 isn't 
actually "stronger". The original author dual-licensed it, and expressly 
told you that he's ok with any GPL version greater than or equal to 2.

			Linus

  parent reply	other threads:[~2006-09-28 15:04 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 235+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-09-22 16:15 GPLv3 Position Statement James Bottomley
2006-09-22 16:16 ` James Bottomley
2006-09-22 17:49 ` The GPL: No shelter for the Linux kernel? Adrian Bunk
2006-09-22 18:00   ` Greg KH
2006-09-22 18:01   ` Manu Abraham
2006-09-22 20:04   ` David Schwartz
2006-09-22 21:25     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-22 21:44     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-23  0:11       ` David Schwartz
2006-09-23  1:36         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-23  7:28         ` Paul Jackson
2006-09-23  8:05       ` Manu Abraham
2006-09-23 15:32       ` Oleg Verych
     [not found]         ` <Pine.LNX.4.64.0609230941530.4388@g5.osdl.org>
2006-09-23 21:04           ` Forwarded message from Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org> Oleg Verych
2006-09-27  1:19             ` The GPL: No shelter for the Linux kernel? Oleg Verych
2006-09-23  8:10     ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-09-23 17:38       ` David Schwartz
2006-09-23 18:00       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-23 18:14         ` Petr Baudis
2006-09-24  7:53           ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-09-24 16:34             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-25  5:59               ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-09-25 15:14                 ` Linus Torvalds
     [not found] ` <200609221359.39519.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
2006-09-22 18:08   ` GPLv3 Position Statement James Bottomley
2006-09-22 18:30     ` Gene Heskett
2006-09-22 18:34       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-09-22 18:52         ` Gene Heskett
2006-09-22 19:05       ` Alan Cox
2006-09-22 18:54         ` Gene Heskett
2006-09-25  6:33       ` Marc Perkel
2006-09-22 20:42 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-09-23 11:38 ` Florian Weimer
2006-09-25  2:44 ` An Ode to GPLv2 (was Re: GPLv3 Position Statement) Linus Torvalds
2006-09-25  4:40   ` Willy Tarreau
2006-09-25 12:00     ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-09-25 13:07       ` Willy Tarreau
2006-09-28  0:12         ` H. Peter Anvin
2006-09-25  8:53 ` GPLv3 Position Statement Michiel de Boer
2006-09-25  9:06   ` Russell King
2006-09-25 10:51   ` Neil Brown
2006-09-25 11:31     ` Alan Cox
2006-09-25 16:10       ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-09-29 10:15         ` Helge Hafting
2006-09-29 11:07           ` Alan Cox
2006-09-29 14:02           ` Stephen Clark
2006-09-29 16:51           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-29 17:47             ` Alan Cox
2006-09-29 17:49               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-29 18:17                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-29 18:26                 ` Alan Cox
2006-09-29 18:27                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-29 18:40                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-29 19:59                       ` alan
2006-09-29 20:06                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-29 20:21                           ` alan
2006-09-29 20:32                             ` alan
2006-09-29 23:12                               ` Gene Heskett
2006-09-29 23:25                                 ` Randy Dunlap
2006-09-29 23:53                                   ` Gene Heskett
2006-09-30  0:31                                     ` Vadim Lobanov
2006-09-30  3:36                                       ` Gene Heskett
2006-09-30  4:37                                         ` Vadim Lobanov
2006-09-30  4:54                                           ` Randy Dunlap
2006-09-30  6:10                                             ` Vadim Lobanov
2006-09-29 21:11                             ` Chris Smith
2006-09-29 21:33                               ` alan
2006-09-29 20:51                           ` alan
2006-09-29 21:25                       ` Theodore Tso
2006-09-29 21:29                       ` Alan Cox
2006-10-02  8:46             ` Helge Hafting
2006-09-29 19:43           ` jdow
2006-09-30 18:38           ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-09-30 20:49             ` Alan Cox
2006-09-30 20:38               ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-09-25 14:27     ` Lee Revell
2006-09-25 19:05       ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-09-25 20:58       ` Gene Heskett
2006-09-25 22:10         ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-09-26 21:32       ` Oleg Verych
2006-09-25 19:46     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-09-25 21:10       ` Gene Heskett
2006-09-25 11:11   ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-09-25 14:12   ` James Bottomley
2006-09-25 16:50   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-25 17:26   ` James Bottomley
2006-09-25 15:30 ` Xavier Bestel
2006-09-27  1:11 ` Sergey Panov
2006-09-27  5:55   ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-09-27  7:36     ` Sergey Panov
2006-09-27  8:58       ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-09-27 12:19         ` Alan Cox
2006-09-27 17:28           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-27 18:37             ` Chase Venters
2006-09-27 19:11               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-29 12:42                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-09-27 22:58               ` Theodore Tso
2006-09-27 23:16                 ` Chase Venters
2006-09-28  0:03                   ` Neil Brown
2006-09-28  0:08                     ` David Miller
2006-09-28  0:18                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-28  0:54                     ` Patrick McFarland
2006-09-28  3:15                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-28  3:47                         ` Sergey Panov
2006-09-28  4:13                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-28  5:05                             ` Sergey Panov
2006-09-28  4:39                           ` Chase Venters
2006-09-28  5:13                             ` Trond Myklebust
2006-09-28  5:15                             ` Jeff Garzik
2006-09-28  5:27                               ` Sergey Panov
2006-09-28  5:34                                 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-09-28  7:30                                 ` Al Viro
2006-09-28 13:55                             ` Lennart Sorensen
2006-09-28 14:19                               ` DervishD
2006-09-28 14:40                                 ` Jörn Engel
2006-09-28 14:59                                   ` DervishD
2006-09-28 15:04                                   ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2006-09-28 15:20                                     ` Jörn Engel
2006-09-28 15:31                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-28 15:46                                       ` Björn Steinbrink
2006-09-28 15:24                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-29  0:26                                       ` Neil Brown
2006-09-29  6:22                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-29  1:34                                     ` jdow
2006-09-29  6:08                                     ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-09-29  7:07                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-29  7:18                                       ` David Schwartz
2006-09-29  2:29                                   ` David Schwartz
2006-09-29  2:45                                     ` Neil Brown
2006-09-29  3:05                                       ` Björn Steinbrink
2006-09-29  3:31                                         ` David Schwartz
2006-09-29  5:37                                           ` Björn Steinbrink
2006-09-29  7:18                                       ` David Schwartz
     [not found]                                     ` <20060928225008.ded4fa2c.seanlkml@sympatico.ca>
2006-09-29  2:50                                       ` Sean
2006-09-29  7:18                                         ` David Schwartz
2006-10-02  8:55                                         ` Maybe it's time to fork the GPL License - create the Linux license? Marc Perkel
2006-10-02  9:14                                           ` Jesper Juhl
2006-10-02  9:23                                             ` Marc Perkel
2006-10-03 10:31                                             ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-10-03 15:34                                               ` Marc Perkel
2006-10-02  9:18                                           ` Dumitru Ciobarcianu
2006-10-02  9:25                                           ` Patrick McFarland
2006-10-02 18:26                                             ` James Dickens
2006-10-03 20:59                                           ` Ivan Dimitrov
2006-10-03 21:00                                             ` Chase Venters
2006-10-03 21:17                                             ` It's not GNU/Linux - it's jusy LINUX Marc Perkel
2006-10-03 21:41                                               ` Neil Brown
2006-10-04 20:09                                                 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-10-04 20:53                                                   ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-10-03 21:41                                               ` Adam Henley
2006-10-03 21:47                                                 ` Marc Perkel
2006-10-03 21:58                                                   ` Chase Venters
2006-10-03 22:00                                                   ` Hua Zhong
2006-10-04  1:17                                                     ` Patrick Draper
2006-10-04  2:06                                                       ` Patrick McFarland
2006-10-04 15:16                                                         ` Patrick Draper
2006-10-03 22:10                                                   ` M4y3c0
2006-10-03 22:02                                           ` Maybe it's time to fork the GPL License - create the Linux license? Daniel Barkalow
2006-09-28 14:51                                 ` GPLv3 Position Statement Simon Oosthoek
2006-09-28 15:07                                   ` DervishD
2006-09-28 15:38                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-28 18:34                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-28 17:16                         ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-09-28 18:59                           ` Segher Boessenkool
2006-09-28 19:34                             ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-09-28 20:01                               ` Oleg Verych
2006-09-28 23:12                                 ` Gene Heskett
2006-09-29  8:04                           ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-09-28  1:35                     ` Al Viro
2006-09-28  3:13                       ` Sergey Panov
2006-09-28  3:36                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-28  1:53                     ` Alan Cox
2006-09-28  9:41                     ` Jörn Engel
2006-09-28  9:55                       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-09-28 14:45                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-28 15:19                           ` Alan Cox
2006-09-28 14:40                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-28  2:34                   ` Gene Heskett
2006-09-28  8:04             ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-09-28 13:50               ` Christer Weinigel
2006-09-28 20:43               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-27 18:01         ` Theodore Tso
2006-09-27 12:32     ` Theodore Tso
2006-09-27 21:05       ` David Schwartz
2006-09-29 12:47       ` Pavel Machek
2006-09-27 17:00     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-28  8:18       ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-09-28  9:39       ` Samuel Tardieu
2006-09-27 16:08   ` Greg KH
2006-09-25 10:02 tridge
2006-09-27  9:43 Nicolas Mailhot
2006-09-27 17:51 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-27 20:34   ` Krzysztof Halasa
2006-09-27 20:41     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-27 21:01       ` Krzysztof Halasa
2006-09-27 23:01       ` Alan Cox
2006-09-27 23:04         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-27 23:07         ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-09-28  7:36         ` Andi Kleen
2006-09-29  3:01 James Bottomley
2006-09-29  4:40 ` Neil Brown
2006-09-29  6:56   ` James Bottomley
2006-09-29  7:48     ` tridge
2006-09-29  9:37       ` David Schwartz
2006-09-29 10:08       ` Samuel Tardieu
2006-09-29 12:59       ` Alan Cox
2006-09-29 14:36       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-30 15:32       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2006-09-30 16:59         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-30 22:16         ` tridge
2006-09-29 11:59     ` Sanjoy Mahajan
2006-09-29 14:54     ` Horst H. von Brand
2006-09-29 21:46       ` tridge
     [not found]         ` <20060929180323.d2c0d2ee.seanlkml@sympatico.ca>
2006-09-29 22:03           ` Sean
2006-09-29 22:20         ` Jeff Garzik
2006-09-29  5:51 ` tridge
2006-09-29  7:31   ` James Bottomley
2006-09-29 12:08     ` Sanjoy Mahajan
2006-09-29 20:50       ` James Bottomley
2006-09-29  7:31   ` James Bottomley
2006-09-29  8:09     ` tridge
2006-09-29 20:28       ` James Bottomley
2006-09-29  8:53     ` tridge
2006-09-29  9:37       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-09-29  9:52         ` tridge
2006-09-30  0:56           ` James Bottomley
2006-09-29 19:50       ` James Bottomley
2006-09-30  7:05         ` tridge
2006-09-30 15:06           ` James Bottomley
2006-10-01  6:28             ` tridge
2006-10-01 15:45               ` James Bottomley
2006-10-01 16:48                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-09-30 21:11         ` David Lang
2006-09-30 22:29           ` Michiel de Boer
2006-10-01  6:52           ` tridge
2006-09-29  7:32   ` David Woodhouse

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=Pine.LNX.4.64.0609280748500.3952@g5.osdl.org \
    --to=torvalds@osdl.org \
    --cc=James.Bottomley@steeleye.com \
    --cc=alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk \
    --cc=chase.venters@clientec.com \
    --cc=diablod3@gmail.com \
    --cc=jengelh@linux01.gwdg.de \
    --cc=joern@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=lsorense@csclub.uwaterloo.ca \
    --cc=sipan@sipan.org \
    --cc=tytso@mit.edu \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).