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From: William Breathitt Gray <vilhelm.gray@gmail.com>
To: Linus Walleij <linus.walleij@linaro.org>
Cc: "Andy Shevchenko" <andy.shevchenko@gmail.com>,
	"David Laight" <David.Laight@aculab.com>,
	"Arnd Bergmann" <arnd@kernel.org>, "Willy Tarreau" <w@1wt.eu>,
	"Linux ARM" <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>,
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	"Oleksij Rempel" <o.rempel@pengutronix.de>,
	"Baruch Siach" <baruch@tkos.co.il>,
	"Russell King - ARM Linux" <linux@armlinux.org.uk>,
	"Daniel Tang" <dt.tangr@gmail.com>,
	"Uwe Kleine-König" <u.kleine-koenig@pengutronix.de>,
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	"Wei Xu" <xuwei5@hisilicon.com>,
	"Steven Rostedt" <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	"Yoshinori Sato" <ysato@users.osdn.me>,
	"Mark Salter" <msalter@redhat.com>,
	"Michael Ellerman" <mpe@ellerman.id.au>,
	"Geert Uytterhoeven" <geert+renesas@glider.be>,
	"Thomas Bogendoerfer" <tsbogend@alpha.franken.de>
Subject: Re: Old platforms: bring out your dead
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2021 21:56:17 +0900
Message-ID: <X/7t8avSe3BmYmiC@shinobu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <X/7n5JQLQrBLKGaf@shinobu>


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On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 09:30:28PM +0900, William Breathitt Gray wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 01:02:20PM +0100, Linus Walleij wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 11:27 AM Andy Shevchenko
> > <andy.shevchenko@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 11:55 AM David Laight <David.Laight@aculab.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > > basically 486 but have a few extra instructions - probably just cpuid
> > > > and (IIRC) rdtsc.
> > > > Designed for low power embedded use they won't ever have been suitable
> > > > for a desktop - but are probably fast enough for some uses.
> > > > I'm not sure how much keeping 486 support actually costs, 386 was a
> > > > PITA - but the 486 fixed most of those issues.
> > >
> > > Right, we have "last of mohicans" (to date) Intel Quark family of CPUs
> > > (486 core + few i586 features).
> > > This is for the embedded world and probably not for powerful use.
> > 
> > What is the status of PC/104?
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC/104
> > 
> > I have three GPIO drivers for PC/104 machines and these are for
> > embedded industrial usecases. I am curious about what CPUs these
> > beasts run on in practice? Are they getting upgraded?
> > 
> > Paging William, I think he work on these daily.
> > 
> > Yours,
> > Linus Walleij
> 
> I don't really see pure PC/104 systems around that much anymore, but
> there are still plenty of PC/104-Plus and PCI-104 setups in production.
> The PC/104 form factor is popular because users can stack PC/104
> compatible modules easily together to build custom solutions; see for
> example the diagram on this page:
> https://www.advantech.com/embedded-boards-design-in-services/embedded-single-board-computers/pc104-and-pc104-plus
> 
> As far as the CPU is concerned, these systems are typically for
> industrial applications and run CPUs geared for low-power consumption --
> you're looking at processor series such as the Intel Bay trail
> (https://www.winsystems.com/product/epx-c414/), DMP Vortex86DX
> (http://www.diamondsystems.com/products/helios), and AMD G-series
> (https://www.advantech.com/products/1-2jkltu/pcm-3356/mod_0706f4d5-2e44-473a-a7b7-53bd1a7bd1a0).
> 
> TLDR; PC/104 is certainly a niche market focused on industrial
> consumers, but the form factor and devices are still popular and
> upgraded reguarly.
> 
> William Breathitt Gray

Oops, I misread what you were asking. If you mean, are the systems that
run these PC/104 stackable devices running older processor series, then
yes that's typically the case.

It seems like newer systems have migrated to the PCIe/104 form factor,
which although having the same dimensions as the PC/104 form factor
lacks compatibility with PC/104 devices; for example:
https://www.rtd.com/i7/default.htm

I suspect the general trend in the market is moving towards these PCIe
modules because PC/104 ISA communication just lacks the bandwidth
necessary for many applications.

William Breathitt Gray

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  reply index

Thread overview: 121+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-01-08 22:55 Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-08 23:32 ` Steven Rostedt
2021-01-09 22:04   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-08 23:44 ` Thomas Bogendoerfer
2021-01-09  0:16 ` Linus Walleij
2021-01-09 17:32   ` Florian Fainelli
2021-01-09 21:59   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-09  5:56 ` Willy Tarreau
2021-01-09 21:52   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10  6:21     ` Willy Tarreau
2021-01-10 10:44       ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-11  9:50     ` David Laight
2021-01-13 10:27       ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-13 12:02         ` Linus Walleij
2021-01-13 12:17           ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-13 12:21             ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-15  0:03               ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2021-01-15  0:24                 ` William Breathitt Gray
2021-01-15  8:59                   ` David Laight
2021-01-13 12:30           ` William Breathitt Gray
2021-01-13 12:56             ` William Breathitt Gray [this message]
2021-01-13 13:44           ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-02-04 21:01         ` Pavel Machek
2021-02-05  9:13           ` David Laight
2021-02-05  9:29             ` Pavel Machek
2021-01-09 17:34 ` Florian Fainelli
2021-01-09 21:18   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-09 17:43 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-09 21:34   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 20:09     ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-09 20:19 ` Baruch Siach
2021-01-09 21:19   ` Arnd Bergmann
     [not found] ` <67171E13-6786-4B44-A8C2-3302963B055F@gmail.com>
2021-01-09 22:20   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10 18:12     ` Fabian Vogt
2021-01-10 19:20       ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10 21:33       ` Linus Walleij
2021-01-11  0:33         ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-11 12:32           ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 12:36             ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-09 23:12 ` Andrew Lunn
2021-01-10  8:45   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10 16:46     ` Andrew Lunn
2021-01-10 17:27       ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10 19:51         ` Andrew Lunn
2021-01-10 15:51 ` Neil Armstrong
2021-01-10 15:56   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10 17:35 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-10 21:46   ` Sam Ravnborg
2021-01-11  8:05     ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-11 14:55       ` chase rayfield
2021-01-12  0:26         ` Rob Landley
2021-01-12  0:50           ` chase rayfield
2021-01-12 14:37         ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-11 18:09     ` Rob Landley
2021-01-11 15:04   ` Gerhard Pircher
2021-01-12 14:44     ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-12 22:46       ` Linus Walleij
2021-01-13  8:09         ` Rob Landley
2021-01-13  8:21           ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-13 13:25             ` Rob Landley
2021-01-13 12:02           ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-13  8:15         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-13 10:39         ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-14  3:54           ` New platforms: bring out your dead, was " Finn Thain
2021-01-14  9:41         ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-14  9:48           ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-14 21:21           ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-14 22:54             ` Undesirable code, was Re: Old platforms etc Finn Thain
2021-01-14 23:09             ` Old platforms: bring out your dead Max Filippov
2021-01-15  8:31               ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-13  0:12       ` Old platforms never die, was " Finn Thain
2021-01-16  6:54         ` Rob Landley
2021-01-16 23:22           ` Finn Thain
2021-01-13 11:47       ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-11  1:39 ` Daniel Palmer
2021-01-11  9:15   ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-11  9:20     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11  9:26       ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-11  9:36         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11  9:50           ` Greg Ungerer
2021-01-11  9:42     ` Daniel Palmer
2021-01-11 10:13   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11  8:19 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11  8:59   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11  9:16     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11 10:28       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11 10:37         ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11  9:40     ` Thomas Bogendoerfer
2021-01-11 10:34       ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11  8:40 ` efm32 is dead [Was: Old platforms: bring out your dead] Uwe Kleine-König
2021-01-11 11:10 ` Old platforms: bring out your dead Viresh Kumar
2021-01-11 19:59   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 21:15     ` Mattias Wallin
2021-01-11 21:47       ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 13:13 ` Marc Gonzalez
2021-01-11 17:29   ` Måns Rullgård
2021-01-11 21:50     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-12  8:23       ` Marc Gonzalez
2021-01-11 14:22 ` Mark Salter
2021-01-11 15:00   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 14:44 ` Alexander Shiyan
2021-01-11 14:58   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 16:23 ` Sylvain Lemieux
2021-01-11 22:17   ` Alexandre Belloni
2021-01-11 19:58 ` Thomas Petazzoni
2021-01-11 20:10   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 20:25 ` Song Bao Hua (Barry Song)
2021-01-12  8:41   ` Marc Gonzalez
2021-01-13 10:30 ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-13 11:02   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-13 16:14 ` [v2] " Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-13 19:00   ` Krzysztof Hałasa
2021-01-14  8:51     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-15  7:08   ` Wei Xu
2021-01-15  9:26     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-15 11:09       ` Leizhen (ThunderTown)
2021-01-15 12:04         ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-18 10:46           ` Wei Xu
2021-01-13 22:27 ` Richard Z
2021-02-05 13:37 ` Alexander Lobakin
2021-01-12  2:05 tedheadster

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