From: Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>
To: "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@kernel.org>
Cc: Jonas Oberhauser <jonas.oberhauser@huaweicloud.com>,
Andrea Parri <parri.andrea@gmail.com>,
will@kernel.org, peterz@infradead.org, boqun.feng@gmail.com,
npiggin@gmail.com, dhowells@redhat.com, j.alglave@ucl.ac.uk,
luc.maranget@inria.fr, akiyks@gmail.com, dlustig@nvidia.com,
joel@joelfernandes.org, urezki@gmail.com,
quic_neeraju@quicinc.com, frederic@kernel.org,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 2/2] tools/memory-model: Make ppo a subrelation of po
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2023 11:47:50 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <Y9f0tlBSgtYeiaiL@rowland.harvard.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20230130043645.GN2948950@paulmck-ThinkPad-P17-Gen-1>
On Sun, Jan 29, 2023 at 08:36:45PM -0800, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2023 at 09:39:17PM -0500, Alan Stern wrote:
> > On Sun, Jan 29, 2023 at 11:19:32PM +0100, Jonas Oberhauser wrote:
> > > I see now. Somehow I thought stores must execute in program order, but I
> > > guess it doesn't make sense.
> > > In that sense, W ->xbstar&int X always means W propagates to X's CPU before
> > > X executes.
> >
> > It also means any write that propagates to W's CPU before W executes
> > also propagates to X's CPU before X executes (because it's the same CPU
> > and W executes before X).
> >
> > > > Ideally we would fix this by changing the definition of po-rel to:
> > > >
> > > > [M] ; (xbstar & int) ; [Release]
> > > >
> > > > (This is closely related to the use of (xbstar & int) in the definition
> > > > of vis that you asked about.)
> > >
> > > This misses the property of release stores that any po-earlier store must
> > > also execute before the release store.
> >
> > I should have written:
> >
> > [M] ; (po | (xbstar & int)) ; [Release]
> >
> > > Perhaps it could be changed to the old po-rel | [M] ; (xbstar & int) ;
> > > [Release] but then one could instead move this into the definition of
> > > cumul-fence.
> > > In fact you'd probably want this for all the propagation fences, so
> > > cumul-fence and pb should be the right place.
> > >
> > > > Unfortunately we can't do this, because
> > > > po-rel has to be defined long before xbstar.
> > >
> > > You could do it, by turning the relation into one massive recursive
> > > definition.
> >
> > Which would make pretty much the entire memory model one big recursion.
> > I do not want to do that.
> >
> > > Thinking about what the options are:
> > > 1) accept the difference and run with it by making it consistent inside the
> > > axiomatic model
> > > 2) fix it through the recursive definition, which seems to be quite ugly but
> > > also consistent with the power operational model as far as I can tell
> > > 3) weaken the operational model... somehow
> > > 4) just ignore the anomaly
> > > 5) ???
> > >
> > > Currently my least favorite option is 4) since it seems a bit off that the
> > > reasoning applies in one specific case of LKMM, more specifically the data
> > > race definition which should be equivalent to "the order of the two races
> > > isn't fixed", but here the order isn't fixed but it's a data race.
> > > I think the patch happens to almost do 1) because the xbstar&int at the end
> > > should already imply ordering through the prop&int <= hb rule.
> > > What would remain is to also exclude rcu-fence somehow.
> >
> > IMO 1) is the best choice.
> >
> > Alan
> >
> > PS: For the record, here's a simpler litmus test to illustrates the
> > failing. The idea is that Wz=1 is reordered before the store-release,
> > so it ought to propagate before Wy=1. The LKMM does not require this.
>
> In PowerPC terms, would this be like having the Wz=1 being reorders
> before the Wy=1, but not before the lwsync instruction preceding the
> Wy=1 that made it be a release store?
No, it would be like having the Wz=1 reordered before the Rx=1,
therefore before the lwsync. Obviously this can't ever happen on
PowerPC.
Alan
> If so, we might have to keep this quirk.
>
> Thanx, Paul
>
> > C before-release
> >
> > {}
> >
> > P0(int *x, int *y, int *z)
> > {
> > int r1;
> >
> > r1 = READ_ONCE(*x);
> > smp_store_release(y, 1);
> > WRITE_ONCE(*z, 1);
> > }
> >
> > P1(int *x, int *y, int *z)
> > {
> > int r2;
> >
> > r2 = READ_ONCE(*z);
> > WRITE_ONCE(*x, r2);
> > }
> >
> > P2(int *x, int *y, int *z)
> > {
> > int r3;
> > int r4;
> >
> > r3 = READ_ONCE(*y);
> > smp_rmb();
> > r4 = READ_ONCE(*z);
> > }
> >
> > exists (0:r1=1 /\ 2:r3=1 /\ 2:r4=0)
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-01-30 16:47 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 39+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-01-26 13:46 [PATCH v2 0/2] Streamlining treatment of smp_mb__after_unlock_lock Jonas Oberhauser
2023-01-26 13:46 ` [PATCH v2 1/2] tools/memory-model: Unify UNLOCK+LOCK pairings to po-unlock-lock-po Jonas Oberhauser
2023-01-26 16:36 ` Alan Stern
2023-01-26 20:08 ` Paul E. McKenney
2023-01-26 23:21 ` Paul E. McKenney
2023-01-27 13:18 ` Jonas Oberhauser
2023-01-27 15:13 ` Paul E. McKenney
2023-01-27 15:57 ` Jonas Oberhauser
2023-01-27 16:48 ` Paul E. McKenney
2023-01-26 13:46 ` [PATCH v2 2/2] tools/memory-model: Make ppo a subrelation of po Jonas Oberhauser
2023-01-26 16:36 ` Alan Stern
2023-01-27 14:31 ` Jonas Oberhauser
2023-01-28 19:56 ` Alan Stern
2023-01-28 22:14 ` Andrea Parri
2023-01-28 22:21 ` Andrea Parri
2023-01-28 22:59 ` Alan Stern
2023-01-29 5:17 ` Paul E. McKenney
2023-01-29 16:03 ` Alan Stern
2023-01-29 16:21 ` Paul E. McKenney
2023-01-29 17:28 ` Andrea Parri
2023-01-29 18:44 ` Paul E. McKenney
2023-01-29 21:43 ` Boqun Feng
2023-01-29 23:09 ` Paul E. McKenney
2023-01-30 2:18 ` Alan Stern
2023-01-30 4:43 ` Paul E. McKenney
2023-01-29 19:17 ` Paul E. McKenney
2023-01-29 17:11 ` Andrea Parri
2023-01-29 22:10 ` Alan Stern
2023-01-29 22:19 ` Jonas Oberhauser
2023-01-30 2:39 ` Alan Stern
2023-01-30 4:36 ` Paul E. McKenney
2023-01-30 16:47 ` Alan Stern [this message]
2023-01-30 16:50 ` Paul E. McKenney
2023-01-31 13:56 ` Jonas Oberhauser
2023-01-31 15:06 ` Alan Stern
2023-01-31 15:33 ` Jonas Oberhauser
2023-01-31 16:55 ` Alan Stern
2023-02-01 10:37 ` Jonas Oberhauser
2023-01-30 4:46 ` Paul E. McKenney
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